Let's keep it complicated

[amtrosie]

Finless,
If I could figure out the quote thing this would be easier...... I do not see DIR as the sole philosophy of diving, what I am trying to say is that they have taken many seemingly common sense parts of diving and made them a very specific part of the dive. Either it's planning or execution.

The thing about the unfit diver,be it physical fitness, mental, etc., is that there are far too many accidents were the contributing cause is their lack of fitness. To say that 80% have hair too is very condescending. I live in South Florida and virtually every dive I see TOTALLY UNFIT DIVERS GETTING IN THE WATER!!! The problems they have, and the problems they create for the other divers make me want to scream!! When I lived and dove the North East Atlantic, I saw much less of this. Just because the water is warmer, does not mean that standards should be relaxed. Another example: While diving the Carribean, An adult (mid 30's) got on the boat and was beside herself because she did not know her previous dives profile. She had not kept track of time, depth, etc. She physically was in decent shape, but metally had totally check out and expected the dive operator to do all this for her. I detect that the argument is specific to you, while several of us have been much more general in our statements.

I dove solo for many years, in the caves, and found that I started to become lax in my dive preperation. Had I had a dive partner (team member), to look me over and call me to task for any little thing, I would not have had an issue with a reel while doing a 2100' penetration (approx 700m). It was a little thing, which had the potential for catastrophic consequences. Was I always lax? No, but human nature (Murphy) has a way of getting our attention. I do not say that you are lax, but how easy would it be to overlook something before a dive? I am not saying that you are going to diving hell because you are a solo diver? No! (well maybe purgatory) But DIR recognises the POSSIBILITY of a potential problem and says "We will not do that".

I did see the piece on Matt, and I am of mixed emotions on that. What I did note was the amount of support divers with him and the diligence of the instructor with him at his side. This is hardley an example of a typical diver.

I have said enough for now, look out for the Lockness monster! Remember no one will believe you if you see it diving solo!!


P.S. The wife thing..... We are divorced now and I am REALLY paying for just reacting and not thinking.

[WarmWaterdiver]

well, this has veered off from the original topic, but that's ok. However, I find it quite interesting that non-DIR divers attack GUE DIR and complain that GUE DIR divers insist their method to be right and the ONLY one that is safe. Actually, they do not claim they are the ONLY ones safe but they do steadfastly hold that their method is safe.
Who can argue with a team concept where every piece of gear belongs not only to you but also to your teammate (buddy)? Who could argue with extreme conservatism when gas planning? Who could argue with uniformity in gear configurations, design and type?
I particularly like those safety issues. I particularly like horizontal diving as opposed to the overweighted vertical diving I was taught in OW & AOW. I particularly like the fact that various kicks are taught to best prevent silting, and fatigue.
I am new to diving, very very new to GUE DIR and am still adjusting to some changes in gear and styles but I know just enough to know that this approach is best and I am better off trying my best to become proficient at it in lieu of going back to vertical, haphazard diving techniques.
I am not bashing any style, and I cant understand why people find it necessary to bash DIR. Do what you do and let me do what I do. You can be happy and I can be happy. Diving is fun or why do it?
Funny comment about the wife, amtrosie. I know a couple of guys named Guido and Guiseppe that can alleviate that problem for you. Kinda convince her to move far away, if ya know what i mean. (just joking, of course)

[Finless]

well, this has veered off from the original topic, but that's ok. However, I find it quite interesting that non-DIR divers attack GUE DIR and complain that GUE DIR divers insist their method to be right and the ONLY one that is safe. Actually, they do not claim they are the ONLY ones safe but they do steadfastly hold that their method is safe.

Not true ......... maybe not all, but some certainly do ...... or maybe "did"?

Who can argue with a team concept where every piece of gear belongs not only to you but also to your teammate (buddy)?

Well. it's funny you should say that BUT ............

Who could argue with extreme conservatism when gas planning?

It depends on your definition of extreme and at what point you ordinarily turn a dive.

Who could argue with uniformity in gear configurations, design and type?

I definitely can. I've already given one reason why I wear an FFM. Another thing I have noted, in the UK, about DIR converts is that they have a sudden urge to buy Halcyon gear. I a recent (within last 12 months) a Halcyon wing came out worse than many of its competitors on surface buoyancy/lift (height of mouth out of the water).

I particularly like those safety issues.

No problem with that.

I particularly like horizontal diving as opposed to the overweighted vertical diving I was taught in OW & AOW.

I can't comment on how you were taught but that was never how I was taught by my PADI instructors. I might add at this point that my opinion is that the agency is irrelevant and that the instructor is far more important ..... particularly on the more advanced courses where the diver is already committed to the sport.

I particularly like the fact that various kicks are taught to best prevent silting, and fatigue.[/quote]Show off, you just like reversing!

I am new to diving, very very new to GUE DIR and am still adjusting to some changes in gear and styles but I know just enough to know that this approach is best and I am better off trying my best to become proficient at it in lieu of going back to vertical, haphazard diving techniques.

If you'll forgive me for saying so but I did wonder - I might even hazard a guess that you are not a regular diver? Were you a relatively experienced diver you should have already figured these problems out for yourself and resolved them. Are you a member of a dive club? Do you dive with experienced divers?

I am not bashing any style, and I cant understand why people find it necessary to bash DIR.

Perhaps I was bashing DIR ........ as I have mentioned several times I am certain that any DIR qualified diver is going to be at least a very competent diver.

Do what you do and let me do what I do.

A good philosophy for life in general IMO.

You can be happy and I can be happy.

Please understand that some, well probably just me, no, definitely not JUST me find the 'religious transformation that new DIR divers seem to undergo and then feel the need to tell everyone about it slightly irritating. Ignore us ......... it's just my old and twisted way.

Diving is fun or why do it?

I couldn't agree more and I hope you enjoy your many multiple failure drills.

To you, I apologise if I gave any offence by the directness of any of my statements. I am sincerely happy that you have found what you feel you need to progress your diving. Also, when you have passed your fundies course you will be a much happier diver in the water - to which end, I wish you the best with your training.

[Finless]

Finless,
If I could figure out the quote thing this would be easier......

I spend too much time on the inernet ........the text you want to have quoted needs a quote at the beginning and a /quote at the end - each must start and finish with the square brackets [ & ] with no spaces. I couldn't type them as one piece of text other wise you wouldn't see them. If you find a post and click on the quote button below the post you will see what I mean.

I do not see DIR as the sole philosophy of diving, what I am trying to say is that they have taken many seemingly common sense parts of diving and made them a very specific part of the dive. Either it's planning or execution.

It has been a long while since I did any dive that I didn't thoroughly plan for if it involves deco ........ gas run times, backup deco slates etc etc. I have to admit I am quite distanced from the "holiday diver" in warm water conditions. The conditions in the English Channel can be very dark and murky (they can also be exceptionally good ......... occasionally).

The thing about the unfit diver,be it physical fitness, mental, etc., is that there are far too many accidents were the contributing cause is their lack of fitness.

Mental toughness I might agree with ......... physical, well, that has to be relative to the dive being undertaken ......... my happiest dives are just so chilled out and easy going. I no longer have the urge to want to see every piece of the wreck and so take it nice and easy.

To say that 80% have hair too is very condescending.

I'm just proving a point about unsupported statistics. I forget the figures quoted but if the DAN report had said xx% of incidents last year were directly attributable to lack of fitness in the divers involved then that is acceptable. To say that xx% of the divers who were involved in incidents were unfit may not have any direct bearing on the incident.

I live in South Florida and virtually every dive I see TOTALLY UNFIT DIVERS GETTING IN THE WATER!!! The problems they have, and the problems they create for the other divers make me want to scream!!

I don't see too much of this here ......... perhaps they all dive elsewhere?

When I lived and dove the North East Atlantic, I saw much less of this. Just because the water is warmer, does not mean that standards should be relaxed. Another example: While diving the Carribean, An adult (mid 30's) got on the boat and was beside herself because she did not know her previous dives profile. She had not kept track of time, depth, etc. She physically was in decent shape, but metally had totally check out and expected the dive operator to do all this for her. I detect that the argument is specific to you, while several of us have been much more general in our statements.

Well ........ anyone can have a scared moment ........ I've had a few myself. With regards to "and expected the dive operator to do all this for her" she'd get laughed off the boat by the other divers.

I dove solo for many years, in the caves, and found that I started to become lax in my dive preparation. Had I had a dive partner (team member), to look me over and call me to task for any little thing, I would not have had an issue with a reel while doing a 2100' penetration (approx 700m). It was a little thing, which had the potential for catastrophic consequences. Was I always lax? No, but human nature (Murphy) has a way of getting our attention. I do not say that you are lax, but how easy would it be to overlook something before a dive? I am not saying that you are going to diving hell because you are a solo diver? No! (well maybe purgatory) But DIR recognises the POSSIBILITY of a potential problem and says "We will not do that".

I have a very strict predive regime - I nearly killed myself once by not "doing it right" () so I never deviate from my checks which are almost as careful as for a CCR diver. Being solo I don't ever have to rush to be ready with my buddy. Also, I find buddy diving in poor conditions VERY stressful and much prefer to concentrate on me. Anyway, solo or nor is not relevant but I would like to assure you my checks are VERY fastidious.

I did see the piece on Matt, and I am of mixed emotions on that. What I did note was the amount of support divers with him and the diligence of the instructor with him at his side. This is hardley an example of a typical diver.

Indeed, this is an example on a simply incredible person. My point is that I find the "privilege and not a right" statement completely ridiculous.

I have said enough for now, look out for the Lockness monster!

I'm more worried about how to deal with a rampant mermaid, possibly her angry merman friend and the great whites which are supposed to be headed our way.

Remember no one will believe you if you see it diving solo!!

On the internet someone will believe anything?

Also, Iapologise for my slightly cantankerous and pretentious reply. The feeling was there but not the right words.

P.S. The wife thing..... We are divorced now and I am REALLY paying for just reacting and not thinking.

Ah ......erm ....... commiserations or congratulations, whichever is the most appropriate!

ps: If you are interested in wreck scanning technology then have a look at the ADUS post I'll be making shortly.