Oz Dive Co fined $200K

[Zero]

This is one reason im a bit apprehensive about doing my DM. The guy was certified. He should be the one that is responsible for his own actions. Yeah it does suck that he died but shouldnt he be the one saying he wasnt ok to do the dive? Shouldnt he of been the one to check his weights? Passing on from all that could the said dive shop now couter sue the cert agency and instucting shop for failing to teach the guy to the standard?
Condolences to the family and loved ones for their loss but really the only one responsible for the actions is yourself.

Matt

[santelmo]

This is one reason im a bit apprehensive about doing my DM.

Matt

same same

[rubber chicken]

This case has been dissected to death on Aussie dive forums. AFAIK, the company concerned had a whole set of perfectly wonderful standards and procedures in place, which if followed would have probably prevented this tragedy, they ignored almost every single one of them! It was for this reason that the fine was levied. The fine, by the way, was commensurate with other workplace death judgements.
As a DM, one of my biggest dilemmas is at what point should i step in and tell somebody that they cannot dive ?
Many people seem to resent the percieved 'interference' of DMs in their diving and "I've dived thousands of times more than you, you newby whippersnapper and if i decide to jump off the boat with my air off, fins in my hand and mask on top of my head, then that's exactly what i am going to do. And you can't stop me !!" is an (only slightly exaggerated ) example of the sorts of things that you get told.
Just occasionally, the dive industry needs to remember that the customer is not always right.


just my 2 seashells worth

[Zero]

If only those indemnity waiver forms actually worked. If you could sign your rights away imagine the places you could go.

Matt

[Finless]

The guy was certified. He should be the one that is responsible for his own actions. Yeah it does suck that he died but shouldnt he be the one saying he wasnt ok to do the dive? Shouldnt he of been the one to check his weights? Passing on from all that could the said dive shop now couter sue the cert agency and instucting shop for failing to teach the guy to the standard?
Condolences to the family and loved ones for their loss but really the only one responsible for the actions is yourself.

Matt

I quite agree. Unfortunately, with having so little experience it is possible the deceased did know enough to say to "look after me"?

Do your DM if that is the way you want your diving to go, just remember to pay a lot of attention to diving experience and "last dived" ....... certainly more than C cards (IMO)!

I don't know if it is part of DM/instructor training but it shouldn't be any kind of an issue for a novice to admit being so.

I also think that the beginning words of the OW course (and other agency equivalents) is that diving can be dangerous and you may die if ...............

[amtrosie]

Unfortunately personal responsibility is not longer the rule but rather the exception. That being said, that, may be the first thing lost to todays global society, the next is , without a doubt, succumbing to the greed of the individual/business. Striking a "happy medium" is truly the tightrope we walk. Unfortunately the DM/Instructor is often the middle man/woman. Caught between the demands of the diver and the boat/shop owner. What diver here, is willing to accede their dive to the proclamation of the DM? Too many of us, especially me, would tell the DM to "take an emtpy tank and make the final dive."

I am in agreement that too many individuals are diving that have no business doing so. We have done much to make this sport VERY safe. We may have done too much. So much so, that the new diver has no fear. Who was it that said "no fear, is the scariest thing"?

My 2kg. worth.......

[hbh2oguard]

or stop giving C cards to anyone and everyone that finishes the class. Make the standards a LOT harder. You can get certified and basically only know how to dog paddle if that. It's a complete joke because you can be a non-swimmer and still get certified. I've been in the ocean my entire life and now it's my career, lifeguarding, and to tell you the truth I didn't know how comfortable I was with my instructors knowledge of the ocean.

[PinayDiver]

Your exchanges make me realize how peculiarly lucky my group was and is -- in the sense that, for our "teachers," doing business was never the overriding condition.
My first instructor, for example, was a proud man. There were actually two students in our class who didn't get their C cards on the same day as the rest of us. He had to be satisfied first that they wouldn't be a danger to themselves.
And I found my second instructor because I just happened to be buddied up with this girl who, it seemed to me, barely moved in the water and always had the most air left in her tank after a dive. She was my "virtual calling card" to him.
Our current DM, over the years, has become a dear friend too. No one in the group is shy about admitting discomfort or anxiety. And when we bring in someone new, our DM gently quizzes him on his last dive. We can depend on him to do that.
I do think we somehow carry that relationship/comfort level with him to other DMs during out-of-town dives. We're convinced that there are no stupid questions.

[seasnake]

At least here in Canada, if you accept money to act as the "Divemaster" or leader of the activity, that puts responsibility on you to exercise due diligence in providing a safe experience for the customer according to your training and the standards in the industry, and if there is an emergency to act to the best of your ability according to your training and the standards. Anything else and you are liable. But a lot of DM's and instructors get away with terrible practices because thankfully, nothing ever went wrong yet. So they churn out equally unskilled and unsafe certified divers. I know the few of us who really try to keep our skills and training up, stay in shape (... try ), and who tell students, "why don't you come back for a couple extra sessions first?" get a lot of flack from the obese, cigarette smoking DM's and instructors.

I can def. see the point though, that was made: imagine gearing up on a boat for a dive you paid for and the DM coming over and telling you she/he doesn't think you are ready for this dive and they are not going to allow you in the water? Wow, bravo for them, but who here would just quietly accept that? So what do we do? I think stricter certification requirements is a good idea, but the unscrupulous instructors already ignore the standards we have. It's an issue too large to be policed by the training agencies ... they don't have the man power ... And putting the instructors on the honour system doesn't seem to be working ...

[hbh2oguard]

Pinay Diver well that's good to hear because any class I've taken it seems like the main goal of the instructor is to make money. In my OW course one guy who was terrible passed, the instructor told him to always dive with a DM untill he get some dives under his belt. How safe can that be?