Does Australia have it right????

[shinek]

Still think we're in one of those "religious" arguments here. One side will probably never accept what the other is saying.

I will make an attempt to read Trashing the Planet out of interest and a desire to look at all sides of the issue.

But, why should anyone accept one publication as fact and not another? I don't believe anyone who writes a book does so purely to get factual information in the hands of the public, they want to sell books and they all have an agenda, so the information held within that book needs to be viewed with that agenda in mind.

Here are a few reviews from Amazon users, you'll see the varying opinions.

1 This book is a good starting point for those who want to research environmental issues and not get distracted by the hype. It provides many resources and provides good leads. It is also an easy read for those who don't have a scientific back ground.

2 Presents an interesting look at the conservative perspective on the environmental issues of today, but if you are looking for a book with accurate data that you can quote, this is not it. After finding an error right away on page 2, I found it hard to know what was fact and what was not. It does not present the sources of the numbers it quotes, so you can't judge if the information is any more valid than the studies it criticizes. There are better books out there presenting the conservative viewpoint on environmental issues. Does have an interesting section on natural radiation sources though.

3 I keep this book handy to educate clueless people who just listen to the "news" each night.
It is loaded with earth facts, and dispells the popular myths of today, that man has the power to change the climate.
We don't.
We are arrogant for thinking we can. The environmmental movement is a home for Socialists, just follow the money.
Buy this book and prepared to be angered by how manipulated you have been. You are taxed to death for the "environmental good" that has no meaning. What dopes we all are.

4 A completely outdated, thoroughly debunked screed against the environmental movement. Contains a number of hilarious errors, including overestimating the amount of chlorine released by volcanoes by a factor of about 5,000!

[hbh2oguard]

Still think we're in one of those "religious" arguments here. One side will probably never accept what the other is saying.

I will make an attempt to read Trashing the Planet out of interest and a desire to look at all sides of the issue.

But, why should anyone accept one publication as fact and not another? I don't believe anyone who writes a book does so purely to get factual information in the hands of the public, they want to sell books and they all have an agenda, so the information held within that book needs to be viewed with that agenda in mind.

Here are a few reviews from Amazon users, you'll see the varying opinions.

1 This book is a good starting point for those who want to research environmental issues and not get distracted by the hype. It provides many resources and provides good leads. It is also an easy read for those who don't have a scientific back ground.

2 Presents an interesting look at the conservative perspective on the environmental issues of today, but if you are looking for a book with accurate data that you can quote, this is not it. After finding an error right away on page 2, I found it hard to know what was fact and what was not. It does not present the sources of the numbers it quotes, so you can't judge if the information is any more valid than the studies it criticizes. There are better books out there presenting the conservative viewpoint on environmental issues. Does have an interesting section on natural radiation sources though.

3 I keep this book handy to educate clueless people who just listen to the "news" each night.
It is loaded with earth facts, and dispells the popular myths of today, that man has the power to change the climate.
We don't.
We are arrogant for thinking we can. The environmmental movement is a home for Socialists, just follow the money.
Buy this book and prepared to be angered by how manipulated you have been. You are taxed to death for the "environmental good" that has no meaning. What dopes we all are.

4 A completely outdated, thoroughly debunked screed against the environmental movement. Contains a number of hilarious errors, including overestimating the amount of chlorine released by volcanoes by a factor of about 5,000!

Well it sounds like a real "factual" book haha NOT!! I'd have to assume Papa himself wrote the third review. I rely on peer reviewed scientific article published in well know and respected journals for my information....try the same and you might get some real facts supported by science!!! Plus books aren't normally considered good sources for scientific info because most are old and science is always advancing. As a busy student I don't think I'll have time to waste on this, maybe this summer but I highly doubt it. Oh yea one other thing I now know why papa never has an origin of the data he's always trying to pawn off on us.....nice try!

[Papa Bear]

Well anyone can review a book, but it is the must well foot noted book on the subject anywhere. I love how some people will judge a book without even opening the cover! What's to fear? the truth? Is it because the author is a well educated strong conservative WOMAN? It stands on its own merits and foot notes! I happen to agree because of my eduction and 55 years of being in the ocean and on the earth! I understand observation and theory! I also understand people are like Liming, just look at the trillion dollars mess the Liming have us in now!

Don't you just love Orwell? He predicted a society where "Books" are "Not a good source of info"! Wow O worry about our country and our world if this is the generation we are turning it over to! I don't foot note, because it is a discussion, but everything I post has been researched as to source and accuracy right here on the Internet and everyone has the same tools, just not the same brain hemisphere dealing with the info! Because it makes you "Feel Good" doesn't make it true!

[shinek]

"Because it makes you "Feel Good" doesn't make it true!"

Couldn't agree more, but what makes people feel good varies by individual.

H.L. Mencken's philosophy with regards to human nature was that "it is in the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting".

Some would say that the belief that there is no global climate issue and that we have sufficient resources to drill/dig our way out of the current crisis fits that basic philosophy.

Another little quote from Aldous Huxley;
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored".
Obviously that one can work well for either camp.

Both those were taken from the Al Bartlett lecture I referred to some while ago. Well worth viewing, irrespective of which side of the fence you sit.

[hbh2oguard]

sure anyone can write a review and I just commented on those reviews. You are 100% right even though your reply is filled with sarcasm that books aren't the best source for this type of info. Especially the one and only book you keep referring to. I know you'll correct me if I'm wrong but it's over 15 years old. That's some old and outdated info!!! Times have changed and science has continued to advance. The most up to date info isn't in books it's in scientific journals. 15 years ago was really right at the beginning or maybe a little before the climate was really an issue and maybe "trashing the planet" had some substance then.

[Papa Bear]

Funny, I was at the first Earth Day when Global Cooling and a new Ice Age was coming! The part I was trying to get across is to have common ground! You see weather its the fade or the warming fade it's still the same VOODOO designed to control the masses! You don't remember the "Cold war" when we pulled together to defeat the soviets and their Communism, so we needed a new foe! So what better one than one you can use to control the masses! Look who loses, Who wins, and always follow the MONEY!

The book is a start to opening your eyes! It is still written by a physicist and physics does change much regardless of the years! But Tree-Huggers put her down because she doesn't tow the line! Look up Ben Stein's Expelled! You're too young to know that people do have other motives! Follow the Money and POWER!

BTW I am not a McKenzian and don't buy the whole theory! If you had an oil conversation in the early 1800's people would have thought you where nuts! We can't see the future and have no idea of the great things to come! Including a solution to all of our power needs! Like Nuclear so oil can be used for other things! BO said "We will cut our depends on Middle Eastern oil" I can't believe he can be so patronizing and people believe the BS! In the US we get over 50% from Canada 40% from Mexico and 9.1% from Venezuela and less than 1% from the Saudis for over seas navel operations! So see!

We produced 9million barrels of oil in 1984 and today less than 5million! So how much more do we save before we can cut our oil dependency on the Middle East?

[shinek]

Interesting comments so I thought I'd do a quick check on what the US imports from whom;

The US currently imports about 400M barrels per month of crude oil and oil products. Roughly 45% (180M) come from OPEC countries. Of that, roughly45M is from Saudi Arabia, 35M from Venezuela, 25 - 30M from Nigeria and 15 - 20M from Iraq. It varies monthly, so these are all approximate figures based on June to November, 2008 numbers.

From non-OPEC countries (total 220M barrels), Canada is by far the largest source with about 75M, followed by Mexico (35M) and Russia (20M). Surprisingly, the US imports about 10M barrels from the UK and about the same from the Virgin Islands.

For all the details check out the following;
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pe...im0_mbbl_m.htm

Doesn't really change the issue of dependence on foreign oil, but does help show where the dollars are going.

[Papa Bear]

I will be checking the figures, the sources change based on availability, but if anyone is interested I have friend at a major oil company who gets the reports directly. Venezuela is OPEC so is the total OPEC including Ven & Sad? My figures where 2007 late years reports. Dynamic supply and demand world and other than what we use on site in Iraq we buy very little for import! Most goes to Japan and world markets. The UK oil is from Conco-Phillips and under storage contracts. North Atlantic oil supplies...... Here is another perspective as well: http://www.sbsc.org/content/display.cfm?ID=2565

Point is we have it we should be drilling it! Next make it last longer by building NUCLEAR!

BTW: Another day another step toward socialism! Next stop Communism!

[The Publisher]

Imagine if those resources were funneled to U.S. companies for in-house energy sources, whether it be oil, nuclear, solar, geo-thermal, wind, or all of the above.