ins and outs.

[Diverdaniel]

I guess it's tough for the training agencies who are trying to make scuba more accessible to more people to grow the sport and be profitable, etc. etc. But it is such a dangerous line to swim; you don't want to make it so easy that the divers who get certified aren't safe or skilled enough.

I think there is a movement afloat though to start students right from the basic level with the ideals and skills of tech diving, don't you agree?

Yes Seasnake, i know for a fact that G.U.E do this in their Fundamentals course, i believe, also DIR? i dont know DIR enough though to speak, I.A.N.T.D, here in Israel at least, also get EANx trained in their basic openwater courses, if they wish they could pay and get the certification, but trained non the less.

as a technical diver and instructor, i try to give my students that train of thought.
but hey, bottom line, the agency does not count in this one, each instructor and his own, at least that is what i have seen, we may give courses according to the agency's outline and standards, but we can give students more than the very basic requirements in courses if we have the time and backing from our diveshop.
Also, we see today, the raising ammount of diveshops openin, they all wish make money, they compete, they lower prices, this is how corners get cut, courses get shorter, more students in them, instructors pay gets lower cause its so easy to get from OW diver to diving instructor, it can be done in less than a year, heck i've seen it done in alittle over 7 months in some places, as long as the diver has the proper ammount of dives specified in the standards.
and we get instructors "10-a penny". cheap, available. they are not going to be instructors for more than 1.5 years tops, then they move on to the rest of their lives, or to instruct somewhere else in the world.
kinda hard words :/
must be the weather!!!

[seasnake]

but hey, bottom line, the agency does not count in this one, each instructor and his own, at least that is what i have seen, we may give courses according to the agency's outline and standards, but we can give students more than the very basic requirements in courses if we have the time and backing from our diveshop.
Also, we see today, the raising ammount of diveshops openin, they all wish make money, they compete, they lower prices, this is how corners get cut, courses get shorter, more students in them, instructors pay gets lower cause its so easy to get from OW diver to diving instructor, it can be done in less than a year, heck i've seen it done in alittle over 7 months in some places, as long as the diver has the proper ammount of dives specified in the standards.
and we get instructors "10-a penny". cheap, available. they are not going to be instructors for more than 1.5 years tops, then they move on to the rest of their lives, or to instruct somewhere else in the world.
kinda hard words :/
must be the weather!!!

Yep, that is definitely a problem in the industry today, I agree! That is why I became an independant instructor. But I don't think the corner cutters are doing themselves any favours as far as having longterm customers. I think the agencies strive to have good standards, and thankfully there are concientious instructors out there teaching at or above the standard to make good divers right from the start. These good instructors need our support!

[Diverdaniel]

Seasnake, Independant instructors are not a leagal option here in Israel.
have to be affiliated to a diveshop.

[seasnake]

Wow! Really . . . well, I hope the shops are nice to the instructors! ...