Should Dive Certifications be a "license"

[Diverdaniel]

first off, amtrosie good one.

i think i need to rephrase that post of mine, it isnt relevant at all come to think of it.

i was mistaken, in both instances divers & drivers need to have a medical checkup every so often once they reach a certain age, of course it is their responsibility not to dive/drive if something is wrong with them, if they do and someting happens to them, ie they get themselves killed.... well i guess its nature getting rid of the irre4ponsible ones.
the govornment has taken this under its wing in order to try and prevent the irresponsible ones from doing it, but there is only so much they can do.
i wish it were all about personal responsibility and that all people were responsible. yup, Quero, we would not need a dive law.
everything has its goods and bads i guess.

[seasnake]

I like the idea of better regulating of the dive professionals. If we were held to a higher standard and validated more often, that would probably trickle down to all divers?? Maybe??

[acelockco]

Very good point seasnake.

Really that would be the best place to start.

[phrenicnerve]

On the subject of being re-tested for proficiency to keep your certification; everyone had to pass a fitness test before certification right? I am curious because there are so many grossly out of shape divers being mentioned here. We had to do 5 laps without stopping. This is actually very difficult for someone that isn't in shape or a swimmer. It would never be implemented for obvious reasons, but perhaps, at the very least, an annual fitness test could be put in place to "renew" certifications. Kinda like a progress report that either recommends work, or gives an "ok." Doesn't mean someone can't dive, but if they choose to, the proper documentation would be pulled up by a dive shop and from there they can better determine if they should take the risk.

[acelockco]

but then you would be sued by some fat slob saying you descriminated based on their physical shape or weight or lack of fitness.

[phrenicnerve]

yeah i know your right. i'm gonna go puke.

[Papa Bear]

The answer to this for me is yes. I don't believe the gate keepers making mondo bucks off diving would ever agree though. You have one side of the diving community dedicated to the practice and development of safe diving practices, and the other involves the purse strings that keep the diving "industry" in business. I believe diving is a privilege not a right. If you slipped by a certification factory the first time, a second check at certification renewal may show otherwise.

The only way to force this is to make it law, as with driver licenses. A government mandate that would basically force the issue of updating your certification every few years. Bring in the lawyers armed with some high profile accidents and it could be done. You'll always have individuals that will do what they want, just like poachers. But at least DM's and dive shop owners would be protected and kept under check, and therefore the sport itself would enjoy more protection from unnecessary deaths.

I regret that diving has become so inundated with salesmen. I know why, it is the same reason musicians stray that way - it is what you end up having to do to spend all your waking days not having to go work an unrelated job for money. So in turn, some become detached from life, and lose respect for it.
I see it in the diving community. It sucks.

"I believe diving is a privilege not a right." Wow!!!!

Well okay comrade! It is a pretty simple activity and pretty safe once you have the basics! My freedom to dive is a right! My privilege is to have a card that will get me air! And release the provider of the air from liability! You sound pretty snobbish and seem to have an Elitist attitude. Who are you to decide for someone if a risk is acceptable? You don't like the free market in the sport? Without it we wouldn't have a 10th of the equipment and it would be 10 times as expensive! What is wrong with selling a product? Should baseball bats be free or Golf Clubs or maybe just one kind so you don't get sold! Sounds like you have had some bad experiences and I think you suck not the diving community! It is the best bunch of people anywhere!

Look diving is easy anyone can do it! The number one rule is breath and you could have forgotten everything else!

We don't have a lot of deaths in this activity. The ones we do have are when people go beyond their ability or miss judge the situation. You want to stop death stop driving to the dive site and those people have a license. What good does that do you are either a good drive or not and the fact you have a license doesn't mean squat.

If you haven't noticed I am not for any requirement that takes your money and puts a bureaucracy in charge! This is not rocket science! We need more divers not less, we need just what we have personal responsibility, and release of liability for the shop or boat providing air!

Answer me this what if you slipped by? So what? You're not driving a sub you are swimming underwater with an air supply. Are you trying to empress your friends and family with how hard diving is? Stop and use your head, we need to get as many people to appreciated the underwater world as possible! And if people were dying left and right then I could understand, but I will not give up my RIGHT to dive period.

What would keep someone from buying a compressor and a boat and diving all they wanted without your license? Next we will have SCUBA police? It is bad enough at Laguna Beach we don't need more of that!

[phrenicnerve]

hey papa if you want to strap a tank on anyone that wants to dive and all the while be taking their money to travel on your boat go right ahead!

if I were anything you describe, I'd be out on your boat talking **** about democrats and praising the republicans - as if they are different from one another.

don't pretend to know anything about me.

[acelockco]

You sound pretty snobbish and seem to have an Elitist attitude. Who are you to decide for someone if a risk is acceptable? .........Sounds like you have had some bad experiences and I think you suck not the diving community!

Papa Bear, we love to have you here, but watch the name calling as it is not necessary or proper here. Remember you are a newbie here so instead of starting off on the wrong foot take a chill and watch your tone.

We are here not to preach, but to discuss our ideas and thoughts.

Ace

[Daddy-h2O]

I will side wit PB on this one. I think that a nerve was hit. Phrenicnerve attititude does come off a little high handed in tone in the writen form.

phrenicnerve posted

I don't believe the gate keepers making mondo bucks off diving would ever agree though

.

So he thinks that some goverment agency should step in and take the sport over? and add another cost to the sport.

If you slipped by a certification factory the first time, a second check at certification renewal may show otherwise.

Because ever we are just turning out sub standard divers? By who's standard?

The only way to force this is to make it law, as with driver licenses. A government mandate that would basically force the issue of updating your certification every few years. Bring in the lawyers armed with some high profile accidents and it could be done. You'll always have individuals that will do what they want, just like poachers. But at least DM's and dive shop owners would be protected and kept under check, and therefore the sport itself would enjoy more protection from unnecessary deaths.

We don't need lawyers and more laws. Again then we would be mandated to having insurance (DAN would be forced to eliminate coverage or raise prices to stay competitive in the market place)and more cost to a recreational sport. There will always be deaths in any sport. Is there any sporting activity already under goverment regulations?

I think that if the "industry" is going to make a satnd about renewal it should be based on how active one is. The diver who only dives warm water on vacation vs the diver who is diving all the time in any body of water are two diffrent divers

I regret that diving has become so inundated with salesmen. I know why, it is the same reason musicians stray that way - it is what you end up having to do to spend all your waking days not having to go work an unrelated job for money. So in turn, some become detached from life, and lose respect for it.
I see it in the diving community. It sucks.

Ummm, wow. Can you back this up? Do you have personel experiance that you can share?, most shop owners I know are not detached from life, nor driving fancy cars or living in oversized houses. They are regular guys doing a job they love, with the same daily struggles we all have.

As far as comparing Musician to the dive industry, that is a leap (in my mind anyways) Musician tend to be playing for a very wide range of listeners and hope that whatever they are singing/playing about hits a big enough audiance to fill thier vaults. The dive industry understand that in order to keep themselves self-regulated that they need and must keep as good a safety record as possible. To this end I think they are doing a great job!

Now if the industry want to enforce the refresher course issue or want to see my log book to varify that I dive at least every 6 monthes or so I have no problem with that. Or even providing a name or two of people I regularly dive with, I am fine. I don't want goverment regulation impossed on this sport.