Yeah, I figured out what "senior" meant on your profile...
We will have to do that sometime.
ASW
Yes
No
I'm on the fence
Yeah, I figured out what "senior" meant on your profile...
We will have to do that sometime.
ASW
ASW
"Don't believe everything you think"
well, about the age thing, my grandmother is going to be 80 this January, she still has the instincts of a 20+ year old behind the wheel, in my eyes its all personal responsibility.Originally Posted by Quero
she has decided that she will stop speeding cause of the other mad, reckless drivers
easier to enforce a divelaw than a drive law i think, at least it is here in Israel.
i would like to correct any misunderstanding, the Refreash dive required is only if you have not dived in the passed 6 months, no written tests, just a lcass review with a long openwater dive in whitch the divers skill is re-evaluated.
all this is here to keep the diver alive and try to ensure that he comes out of the water alive, there is also a Law that you HAVE to have international diving insurance, otherwise, no dive.
you ALL have good points, i am honored to be around thinking wellmannered and responsible good people.
thiere is also this point, and alot of people disagree on this one, it was stated here that the diver should be responsible for himself and be able to make the call wheather or not he can dive and get out of the water alive afterwards,
from what i have read here , you are all responsible divers, good divers, but what of the people that do not have the humility, the responsibility, the integrity to take a refreash course on their own? i am sad to say that i do not know many that would do so on their own accord.
on the otherhand, what this law has done, is create ill feeling toward the industry, not many people will accept that it is got their own good.
another point is that it gives work ie money to the dive leaders here.
not everyone needs a refreash course, i have seen and dived with divers that have not dived as long as 20 years and still be good good divers, so they need a skills update on the equipment and theory, but in the water..... they are at home and have great bouyancy, regardless of new equipment,
On the otherhand, i have seen divers that after 4 months(im not kidding you) do not remember how to put their equipment together from a-z without help, only after some small talk and pointing out gently and diplomatically, why not go diving with me, we can work on some skills and feel more confident in the water, those divers realise that they need this update, most do not and end up hurting themselves or the environment unfortunately.
oh, and it would be an honor and pleasure to dive with you all.
when you all coming to the Red-Sea, Eilat?
I have been to Elat and was able to snorkel in the Red Sea, but I was unable to dive at the time. It was back in 1990 or so, we had a great time. That place is like paradise! I would love to go back, but I usually only go to a place one time, because there are so many other places in the world to go.
There are three issues here:
1. The people "cussin and discussin" this issue are ALL active divers! This whole discussion is a moot point.
2. The individuals who take a cavalier attitude towards their diving, also take that same attitude to the divers around them when they eventually roll into the water for their single annual dive (if that). Endangering us all.
3. Today's litigious society pre-empts any thought of personal responsibility. Just see the thread on the high court in CA assigning blame to a camp for the death of a child, even though the mother had signed a release waiver for the very activity that the child died doing! I know, intimately how quick the legal system is to sue anyone other than the agrieved. Personal responsibility is no longer acknowledged! If you don't believe me look at the next diving activity waiver that is placed before you!
The premise that the dive industry regulates itself is such a farce, it almost becomes laughable!!!! How is the industry doing anything to control and advance the sport of diving? They sell gear without any proof of diving knowledge (in the form of c-card, or other). The training agencies have "watered down" the curriculum to the point that there is ample discussion as to the ability of 8 to 10 year olds!!! What was the time requirerments for training 15-20 years ago, compared to now? It used to be a MINIMUM of thirty hours for basic openwater, now 16 hours covers everything! Equipment has not improved to make up this void in training! What sort of skills requirerment is demanded? Both the snorkeling and scuba skills have been obliterated to the point that a student, presented with any problem, is in serious trouble to sort out any situation without panicing.
Sure the equipment is better than 30 or 40 years ago, why aren't the students? Why is it that anyone who wants to dive is automatically granted this wish as though it were a constitutional right? (sorry for the US reference here). The ability of the prospective student is not even considered. Whether that be physical or mental, forget the emotional considerations. I have witnessed husband/wife teams, where one partner was completely dis-engaged from the entire activity, but had been "dragged" into it.
Finally, I could not agree more with the assertion of trying to keep the government out of this whole enterprise. That will truely be the end of this sport, as it is enjoyed today!!!!! This is why we must be PROACTIVE in reversing the path that this sport is headed down, and REACTIVE to any government agency coming in and making all manner of bad regulation.
To wrap up this lengthy post: We who discuss this, are not the problem! It is rather those that are absent, who are the problem.
amtrosie,
You have all valid points there, and I have to agree with you. As far as this being a litigious society, I think that is mostly in the U.S. I don't really think other countries would allow this nonsense into their court. I am usually not one for government involvement, but it would be nice if our government did step in there and put a stop to that crap. Just as long as they stay away from diving.
Yeah, riiiiggghhhhtttt!!! a government full of lawyers, telling lawyers to stop. I have a real good picture of that happening!!!
No,
what you do is make 1 new law, called the Frivolous Lawsuit Law. Make it so that if anyone is found abusing the system, that they can be criminally charged.
Seriously how many BS lawsuits would be dropped as soon as they knew if it went to court they could end up in jail. As of now, anyone can take anyone else to court for any reason, valid or not. They may not win, but there are no consequences right now.
If it's all personal responsibility, DD, then we don't need laws, now do we? Divers who are not equipped (skillwise) to execute the dive would just opt out and not kill themselves, which you said was the impetus for Israel's implementing the law you describe.well, about the age thing, my grandmother is going to be 80 this January, she still has the instincts of a 20+ year old behind the wheel, in my eyes its all personal responsibility.
she has decided that she will stop speeding cause of the other mad, reckless drivers
easier to enforce a divelaw than a drive law i think, at least it is here in Israel.
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