padi vs. sdi?

[Daddy-h2O]

Now as far as SCUBA instructors doing " it for thier own ego or the almighty dollar ", well what other reason is there? The reason anyone teaches is their ego. They feel like they know something and get a good feeling from sharing with others. Now as far as money is concerned, we all know that most professional divers (not commercial divers) are not making much money unless they happen to be really lucky. So that idea is down the drain, but if there was money to be made, they deserve it. A lot of hard work goes into becoming a dive instructor and should be properly compensated.

I can name two within 20 miles of each other that it is a total EGO trip for them. This doesn't mean that they are not good instructors, but they tend to draw other Ego geeks as well. I know that thier students who can't handle the ego trip either stop diving altogether or seek out another shop. So on this point I will respectfully disagree, and add that maybe I didn't communicate my point properly.

As far as money goes, yes alot goes in to becoming an instructor and thay deserve to be compensated for it. I have several friends who are instructors. I have seen the things they need to do and not to mention insurances they need to carry.(Well at least in NY)

But I think we got away from the thread a bit.

If the instructor fits your personality and you are comfortable with them, then I say be damned the agencies name.

[hbh2oguard]

well I thought all NY'ers had BIG EGO'S

[acelockco]

Now that was funny!

[Mountain Dog]

Here is an example of an instructor on a HUGE ego trip, and why finding a good instructor is more important than the certifying agency.

We were on a dive trip to Key Largo last february when this instructor from the Miami area brought a group of about 10 students down for their open water cert dives. We were on the same boat, and when he introduced himself the first thing he did was brag that he certifies more students than anyone else in his area. He spent the next two days bragging about his diving adventures, berating his students in every way possible, and openly ogling his two female students. His teaching style was to use put-downs, insults, and negative comments. A real boot camp style. Oh, and his divers? Let's just say it amazing there's any reef left after they got done standing on it, and rototilling it to pieces. If the guy had paid a little more attention to teaching his students, and a little less toward nuturing his ego trip, they would be better divers.

Mountain Dog

[acelockco]

That is unfortunate and that is most likely one of the big reasons PADI and most other agencies are going to the video and computer style training with a limited amount of actual instructor time. I guess they are trying to eliminate things like that.

[Mountain Dog]

For the record, the guy in my story was not PADI...and I'll just leave it at that.

I'm not sure that reducing the instructor role a good thing, though. All I have to draw on here is my own experience, and I have to say that my instructors have been awesome. We got our OW training in Aruba, AOW and Nitrox in Key Largo, and a number of specialties since then from my LDS.

For OW, we were in Aruba in the off season, and LadyDog and I happened to be the only students for four instructors at the dive shop that week. They sent us the OW manual two weeks before we went down. They did some discover dives and they had a fair number of certified divers on the boats, but we were the only OW students. We were drilled and grilled at every turn. Our pool days were full day sessions. Our nights were spent with our faces in the books. For our final checkout dive our instructor turned off the gas valve without us knowing, then threw our rigs as far off the boat as he could into a pretty choppy sea. As they floated away on the current he looked at us and said, "go get 'em, put 'em on, swim back to the boat and I'll hand down your weight belts. Then we'll go diving." It was an interesting lesson in problem solving.

For AOW again, we were the only two students assigned to our instructor. We had a young, but conscientious instructor who was very thorough. We did 10 dives on that trip, and although we passed the requirements for AOW and Nitrox somewhere around dive 6, he dove with us for all 10 tanks and continued to critique and work with us the whole time.

I'm sure we wouldn't have gotten that type of personal treatment if it had been busy, but I'm happy we did. Our instructors really cared, and I hope it shows in our diving.

Maybe this story suggests that one thing to look for in deciding on an instructor, is class size. If an instructor is dealing with ten students, each one is only going to get a tenth of his attention.

Mountain Dog

[Quero]

Getting back to the topic of the original post....

While it's true that the basic standards for agencies that adhere to the RSTC guidelines are pretty similar, there are differences. As noted by BK Diver, some agencies encourage instructors to go beyond the curriculum while others prohibit it. There are pros and cons to both approaches, but that is really a topic for a different thread, so I'll leave it there. The main thing is to make sure *you* are comfortable with your instructor and neither intimidated in any way or uncertain of his/her capacity to do a good job with you (you are allowed bias here, even if it's not very PC--you may prefer a male/female/teenage/middle-aged/senior instructor with a boot-camp/nurturing approach or anything in between!).

In addition, there are differences in the degree to which agencies embrace technology. Both PADI and SDI now have e-learning options that allow students to do most of the academic work online before meeting an instructor face-to-face for the practical in-water sessions. SDI was actually the leader in this approach, and PADI very recently jumped on what seems likely to become a bandwagon. SDI also *requires* students to train using a dive computer to plan dives whereas PADI still requires students to learn to use tables for dive planning. I expect dive tables will eventually become redundant (though a lot of us like redundancy when it's our lives in the balance), but it may take a while due to the economics of dive centers needing to supply the equipment. Already, most tech divers do all of their planning using computer software rather than using the cumbersome tables to work out those complex dive plans, so why not recreational diving. (After all, what else is a dive computer but dedicated software in a tiny bit of hardware?)

Hope that helps!

[Quero]

...PADI and most other agencies are going to the video and computer style training with a limited amount of actual instructor time...to eliminate things like that.

That is certainly part of it. Another part is that scuba instructors are both teachers and coaches. Most are accomplished divers and pretty good coaches. Where a lot of them fall down is in the classroom portion of the course. Many (perhaps most) don't really know how to teach in a classroom setting and simply read powerpoint slides aloud or repeat information students are having trouble with verbatim from the manual rather than going at it from a different direction so that it makes more sense to the student. Really good instructors can bridge that chasm, but significant numbers cannot. I know that a lot of students and instructors alike dread the classroom parts of the certification courses, meaning that many students don't get much from them anyway and may actually learn better in another way. I have certifications from three different agencies in a very large number of courses, and all but one of my instructors was an uninspiring classroom teacher, and yet great role models and coaches in the water.

[amtrosie]

[QUOTE=Quero;5141]That is certainly part of it. Another part is that scuba instructors are both teachers and coaches. Most are accomplished divers and pretty good coaches. Where a lot of them fall down is in the classroom portion of the course. Many (perhaps most) don't really know how to teach in a classroom setting and simply read powerpoint slides aloud or repeat information students are having trouble with verbatim from the manual rather than going at it from a different direction so that it makes more sense to the student. Really good instructors can bridge that chasm, but significant numbers cannot. I know that a lot of students and instructors alike dread the classroom parts of the certification courses, meaning that many students don't get much from them anyway and may actually learn better in another way. I have certifications from three different agencies in a very large number of courses, QUOTE]




I could not agree more!!!! I had a partner who used his education background as a selling point for his classes. He was one of the better instructors I have observed. This very point was discussed amongst my dive team this last weekend. It was our collective agreement on this very item, that is dictating our choice of instructor for future training in the various disciplines of diving that we are pursuing as a team.

Now back to the original post. I have obtained certifications from 9 seperate organizations and the determining factor now, is what diving am I trying to do and what organization provides the best curriculum for that course of study. Now, I seek out the best instructor, period! That may mean traveling on my part. When it comes to my life, a few miles (kilometers) are an insignificant factor in my training requirerments.

How do I chose my Instructor/Agency? That is how!

[Daddy-h2O]

I don't care who you are!!!


- Ha just relized this post was a bit more than 5 hrs to late.. (editted 7/15/07)

Now thats funny!!