Should Dive Certifications be a "license"

[Papa Bear]

LOL Go ahead and vent! But in Real estate you can hurt someone! Remember you need a license to keep up with the changes by the politicians! Real estate is far more dangerous than SCUBA Always remember the alternative to getting older is not so good!

[littleleemur]

eh, sorri should've moved that to the rant & beef thread

I wouldn't mind looking younger

[Papa Bear]

All in the eye of the beholder! Why are we our worst critics?

[bottlefish]

Did you know that there is minimum requirement for keeping your real estate license? There should be something like that for some other (more important) things too. Maybe only for instructors?

That's a thought that has crossed my mind on more then a few occasions. As a PADI/DSAT instructor, all I need to do to keep in status is pay my member fees to stay in status and keep up with the updates. I could go years without teaching or even diving, and then rock up to a 5 star IDC and take a group of DMs up to AI status, a bunch of newbies up to OW or a new techie diver up to extended range/accelerated deco diving to 50 metres.

In that context, i.e as a professional, perhaps it would be a good idea to have some prequesite (of continued relevant experience) to retain your stripes? For instance, PADI insist that an EFR instructor teaches at least one course every two years to retain their EFR Instructor status, why not the same for diving instructor?

As for the recreational diver, I'm very much against the idea. Despite being impossible to manage worldwide, I think it would also end up being restricted to the lowest common demoninator, i.e. to the point of obsurdity.

However what I would like to see is a little more interest taken by dive centres and boats, i.e looking for last dive date, log book experience and cert cards, enforcing a check out dive if they're not sure if a diver is up to the dive they have asked to jump in on.

IMHO we don't need government intervention to control recreational diving activity, we have all the tools in the industry to self regulate. And if we apply the tools carefully we'd not only improve safety, we'd also help the industry as a whole, by identifying and promoting where a diver may need to update their skills or take on further training...

[seasnake]

I think there is about eight "active" diving instructor/dive masters in my little town. If they were all assembled today and tested, I dare say only two of them would pass a (properly evaluated) basic scuba course, let alone an instructor level evaluation.

[littleleemur]

There's a Continuing Education requirement set by the SEC for all Brokers/Dealers (everyone all the way up to the top). You have to take a multiple choice test (no exceptions) that lasts about an hour or so every 2 years. If you don't you loose your license to trade/buy/sell. Supposedly protects investors. However, there are no independants. You must be affiliated with a company that can a compliance manager. That's why there are so many small boutique firms in the US: get your buddies together and start your own if you don't like working for the big boys.

Maybe a system like that? But then we loose our Independant Instructors Shops can be so catty.

[Papa Bear]

That's a thought that has crossed my mind on more then a few occasions. As a PADI/DSAT instructor, all I need to do to keep in status is pay my member fees to stay in status and keep up with the updates. I could go years without teaching or even diving, and then rock up to a 5 star IDC and take a group of DMs up to AI status, a bunch of newbies up to OW or a new techie diver up to extended range/accelerated deco diving to 50 metres.

In that context, i.e as a professional, perhaps it would be a good idea to have some prequesite (of continued relevant experience) to retain your stripes? For instance, PADI insist that an EFR instructor teaches at least one course every two years to retain their EFR Instructor status, why not the same for diving instructor?

As for the recreational diver, I'm very much against the idea. Despite being impossible to manage worldwide, I think it would also end up being restricted to the lowest common demoninator, i.e. to the point of obsurdity.

However what I would like to see is a little more interest taken by dive centres and boats, i.e looking for last dive date, log book experience and cert cards, enforcing a check out dive if they're not sure if a diver is up to the dive they have asked to jump in on.

IMHO we don't need government intervention to control recreational diving activity, we have all the tools in the industry to self regulate. And if we apply the tools carefully we'd not only improve safety, we'd also help the industry as a whole, by identifying and promoting where a diver may need to update their skills or take on further training...

Well stated and well thought out!

[Tigerbeach]

That's a thought that has crossed my mind on more then a few occasions. As a PADI/DSAT instructor, all I need to do to keep in status is pay my member fees to stay in status and keep up with the updates. I could go years without teaching or even diving, and then rock up to a 5 star IDC and take a group of DMs up to AI status, a bunch of newbies up to OW or a new techie diver up to extended range/accelerated deco diving to 50 metres.

In that context, i.e as a professional, perhaps it would be a good idea to have some prequesite (of continued relevant experience) to retain your stripes? For instance, PADI insist that an EFR instructor teaches at least one course every two years to retain their EFR Instructor status, why not the same for diving instructor?

As for the recreational diver, I'm very much against the idea. Despite being impossible to manage worldwide, I think it would also end up being restricted to the lowest common demoninator, i.e. to the point of obsurdity.

However what I would like to see is a little more interest taken by dive centres and boats, i.e looking for last dive date, log book experience and cert cards, enforcing a check out dive if they're not sure if a diver is up to the dive they have asked to jump in on.

IMHO we don't need government intervention to control recreational diving activity, we have all the tools in the industry to self regulate. And if we apply the tools carefully we'd not only improve safety, we'd also help the industry as a whole, by identifying and promoting where a diver may need to update their skills or take on further training...

In my experienced opinion, this has been talked about forever; long before I stopped teaching 18 years ago (as a Course Director). Talk isn't improving anything.
Long ago, thirst for the mighty dollar replaced good old fashioned swimming skills, personal responsibility, and common sense.
For example, if I am involved in an auto accident, will anyone ask me who taught me to drive? But if it's a diving accident, that's exactly what they will ask, isn't it?
As an Instructor, I will need liability insurance in case I get sued by a former student.

What lunacy.

I think 'C' cards should expire, unless a certain number of dives can be shown.
This number can vary depending on the training level. Advanced training would start the time over.
Just because you took a resort course 20 years ago shouldn't make you certified for life.

The Scuba industry isn't regulating itself; Guess who may step in,
and do it in their place?

[seasnake]

For example, if I am involved in an auto accident, will anyone ask me who taught me to drive? But if it's a diving accident, that's exactly what they will ask, isn't it?

That's a very good point, and I dare say driving a car puts more people at risk than going on a dive.

[Papa Bear]

I agree it is a great point, and I have been putting a lot of thought about the point of the analogy. I would also equate it to a four lane highway with that many lane choices and many should stay in the slow lane. We have the system and I have seen people enforce it on dive boats and some resorts..... That is if you have a level of certification the DM lets you do a certain type of dive! If you have an OWC you are watched and asked about your comfort level, more baby sitting is done, even if by eye only. If you demonstrate your ability to the DM then you get a little more freedom...... So do we have a good safety recored in resorts and live-a-board's? I think so. If we are talking about dedicated divers they are diving enough to be better divers. Remember the only thing a card does is release the "Operator's" from liability. It doesn't make you a diver it makes you liable for the air in our tank and the actions you take with it.

I have been on many Freeways where the person next to me must have gotten their license from a Cracker Jack's box. A license doesn't mean we are accident free. There are times when I think it's just another way to collect taxes. In California we have so many people who shouldn't be here let alone on the hwy.