Is the PADI OW Manual too simplified?

[littleleemur]

When I took my PADI OW, I really really felt that I was going to fail.

It wasn't the material, but the way PADI chose to present it. I think I was given the International ESL CD-version. There was no textbook & all the videos and text were on this CD I would play on my computer.

A sample page would be 5 sentences & a short 30-second video of Amanda and Hiroshi deciding to take a PADI OW course at their LDS. The next page would be the next 5 sentences and another 20-second video of Ahmed and Ian sitting side by side by a pool. The page after that would be 45-seconds of Mei-Ling and Antonio buddying up while Marie-Chantal and Jesus did the buddy check....etc etc & they talked soooo s l o w l y . . . .

If it wasn't for that adrenaline pumping techno-step-aerobics music PADI likes to set their videos too, I would have fallen asleep.

I looked at some older PADI manuals at a used bookstore and they at least had more than 5 sentences per age. Was it just that CD version I got? Or is PADI dumbing it down to the point where is borders on prescription insomnia therapy?

[thalassamania]

I've watched an industry fail to mature, an industry that will, unfortunately, never mature, because at its root is not a solid foundation of industry leaders trying to make an honest buck by putting out a product that is better than competing products. It (diver training) is, by-and-large, an industry of hucksters who run about attempting to do two contradictory things simultaneously: 1. market to an uninformed public a product of ever decreasing quality, whilst 2. increasing their profit margin by trying to reduce the costs associated with operating the program. This creates an industry that eats its seed corn that will implode ... its only a question of when. The eLearning and the LDS vs internet sales issue is part and parcel of the same thing. Permit me to point you to JimLaps' insightful comment on another board:

[bubbles]

I don't know what this new version you talk about is like but I quite enjoyed my initial training (6yrs ago) and found it quite informative - however since then I have found the scuba reviews to be daft as they always ask the same questions and cover the same pieces of information instead of revising the wider depth of knowledge on the original course - this means that there are somethings on the original course that are never covered. I think we all need to revise our original knowledge on a regular basis to ensure that we are safe divers and remember vital information in an emergency situation.

Remember too - none of us ever stop learning and we should all continue to widen our knowledge throughout our lives as divers - continuously seeking out new information can't be bad and will stop you falling asleep! LOL

[Papa Bear]

In the end it is up to the instructor who signs off on your C-Card! The idea, beyond the old hard core training, is to compartmentalizes the training so that you're not going to learn everything in your OWC! Do the agencies have to be competitive? Yes! Will capitalism win out in the end? Yes!

The idea isn't that hard to understand, broaden the base and get more people involved in the activity of diving at a basic level! Not everyone will go much beyond that point, but some will that never would have if they hadn't have had an easy way to find out!

The beauty of this kind of system is it doesn't create systems that will not be recognized from one area to another.... Such as you were trained in Cozumel and can't get air in Laguna Beach! The training has to be universal and comprehensive for THE LEVEL that is being taught!

It has not proven out that the PADI system is a failure except to those that are so tied to the "Old School" that they see nothing else! The concept is once tried that SCUBA will get into the blood and compel that student to learn more and seek more experience and training! Without the bodies the industry will never support the activity or grow! It will be considered an Extreme activity and many capable divers will have never taken the plunge!

The important thing to emphasize is diving within your comfort, education, and experience zone! No one should be denied the SCUBA experience! From 8 to 108 you should be able to enjoy the underwater world at your own level! Just because you have a drivers license doesn't mean you can drive an 18 wheeler or even a car! You have to gain experience and confidence!

It is easy for those of us who were trained through fire to criticize those who aren't! It was our intent to dive come hell or high water and nothing would have stopped that! But my experience is not someone else's it is mine and I have come to recognize that some don't have that passion! I want people to see my world, to try it you'll like it, to get wet and take the plunge! To, yes support the industry and learn to appreciate the skills that make you a Master Diver! The more divers the more resorts, the more boats, the more equipment, and the more divers!

Where you take it is up to you! The entry level should be the bunny hill and there are things that you just don't need yet! The Cave industry did the same thing with Cavern and Cave! Some will never go beyond Cavern and don't need the Cave portion! So do we want to teach it all in basic? When I did it, it was in a University setting and class and lab were just standard operating procedure and as I said "Nothing was going to stop me"! That included 8ft waves, crawling over rocks, and jumping off the High-Dive with our gear on! Did it make me a better diver? YES! But it is not the only way to get to the desired goal!

So I chose not to criticize the agencies until I see the end results! If it is more divers that are safe divers then I will continue to support them! If the numbers of problems increase disproportional to the overall numbers then the industry will self adjust due to law suits and good old capitalism!

Until then I know what makes divers and that is diving! Nothing replaces experience and seeking knowledge because you want to, not because your made to!

[littleleemur]

The funny part of the whole thing is I would have gotten certified long ago but my uncle (very very old school - British Navy Diver) had repeatedly told me throughout my childhood that a thorough handle of college calculus and physics was necessary to even be considered for a Basic Course!

Heck, I was cramming the night before walking into my LDS! I was nervous that they would discover my rusty maths & physics and refuse to accept me on the course! Imagine my surprise (& relief) when they not only sold me the OW but also bundled the Advanced course in too!

My original question was if PADI was trying too hard to simplify their course but in the process made it more difficult to learn? I'm not criticizing their material, just that particular method of delivery. While I'm first to admit that I don't have the best attention span in the world, but 5 sentences per page and a 30-second video? or rather it was an hour long video chopped into 30-second segments to go with the 5-sentence sets. It seems more like a test for ADD! (not that I would know what one of those is like....)

oh, & my uncle still refuses to talk to me about anything dive related - stuffy old snot!

[Papa Bear]

Change is hard for many! I know that all the agencies study what the retention and learning curves of their courses are! Their goal is to get more divers and make it safe and fun! Too many people want it to fail, because "They can't be right or safe"! But diving is a safer sport than it was when I learned because of the advances in technology! COMPUTERS! Hip hip hooray! Failure is now curred by a simple puck backup! This covers 99% of all Rec diving!

I do understand your Uncles reluctance! But I would have rather seen you using your time Diving than waiting to!

[thalassamania]

Change is hard for many! I know that all the agencies study what the retention and learning curves of their courses are!

How is that you came to "know" this?

Their goal is to get more divers and make it safe and fun!

In my experience their goal is to make money any way that they can, they have no interest in retention, only in quick certification and immediate sales. The only concerted interest that the agencies showed in safety was back in the late 1970s when there was an alarming increase in training fatalities.

But diving is a safer sport than it was when I learned because of the advances in technology! COMPUTERS! Hip hip hooray! Failure is now curred by a simple puck backup! This covers 99% of all Rec diving!

Computers do not make anything less risky, all the are is an alternate way to display gas saturation information, a cartoon of a table if you will. People still use tables today, and proper use of table is no more likely to result in DCS than is proper use of computers.

[littleleemur]

Thalassamania: thanks! the link was interesting.

PADI should've made the CD version more flexible, more interactive: video in its entirety w/ chapters bookmarked, so you could just click when you were ready to view it. It was hard to jump chapters or even scroll back to refer to something you read, b/c it was in 5 sentence paragraphs. The way they had that CD version set up, would make one have repetitive stress syndrome in their hand from clicking the mouse and develop ADD if they didn't have it already. Plus, I still think I got the ESL version I hope the new eLearning version is much improved.

PB: My uncle is a water-Nazi. He taught us swimming by tossing us off the end of a pier into the sea & not during good weather! I think I was 7 or 8 when he would make us swim out to the platform and back during the winter months, then again, towing a rubber jug behind us. He was offended our moms moved us to pool classes because he thought they were inferior & would "ruin" us. Although he admits now that we all turned out "okay" in the water, he's still stubborn about that friend that ended up getting a full Ivy League Swim Scholarship & made it to the Olympic team. I guess once a stubborn snot, always a stubborn snot.

[Papa Bear]

I swam a bit and my Daughter Lettered all four years, she swam with the Matadors one summer! They have produced more Olympic swimmers than any US club in history! And it sounds like you turned out just fine! He should be proud! But remember as a Navy diver everything he did was controlled and he had no freedom to sore over a wall! He was doing a job and had a grumpy demanding boss! Who probably hated diving and his job!

I know the course director at PADI and they love suggestions and are very open to modifying to make it better! If you would like to email them PM me and I will give you direct link to the top! It's about the numbers and increasing those numbers and it is a good model until someone comes up with a better one!

That being said it really is the instructor that makes the difference! If you find a good one it doesn't matter what agency he reps! Good is good! I like SDI's approach because of the reality of the Computer world! When your doing Video and Camera work the last thing on your mind is time at depth, the computer can be set to remind you with that pesky Beep!

[thalassamania]

I swam a bit and my Daughter Lettered all four years, she swam with the Matadors one summer! They have produced more Olympic swimmers than any US club in history! ...

I have it on good authority that the swim club that has produced the most Olympic Swimmers is Santa Clara Swim Club, here the list.

I know the course director at PADI and they love suggestions and are very open to modifying to make it better! If you would like to email them PM me and I will give you direct link to the top! It's about the numbers and increasing those numbers and it is a good model until someone comes up with a better one!

Similarly there is no "Course Director" at PADI, there are, I'm sure several people there with that certifcation, and several hundred more throughout the world. You want the top? Here's the contact: drew.richardson@ padi.com (he's the Chief Operating Officer and President.)

That being said it really is the instructor that makes the difference! If you find a good one it doesn't matter what agency he reps! Good is good! I like SDI's approach because of the reality of the Computer world! When your doing Video and Camera work the last thing on your mind is time at depth, the computer can be set to remind you with that pesky Beep!

Computer or no computer, that's may not be a recipe for a long and happy life.