Should Dive Certifications be a "license"

[acelockco]

They SAY it, but can't Do it.

Well, I guess if they say they can do it, but can't then let them be shark bait. It won't stop me from diving. You can't spend your entire life worring about everyone else. There are too many rules in this world to begin with. Can you imagine if this sport was regulated like things at the National Park Service?

Hey, bottom line, more room on the dive boat for me and something to talk about here, right?

[Tigerbeach]

It won't stop me from diving. You can't spend your entire life worring about everyone else. There are too many rules in this world to begin with.

I trained safe divers until the Industry wouldn't support me to do so;
My job was worrying about everyone else.

It didn't stop me from diving either!

[Mountain Dog]

[QUOTE=Tigerbeach;5926
The diving equipment industry got involved, and chose to sell lots of gear to lots of folks that don't have the water skills in the first place.Their position was that everyone should be divers.They sold equipment dependency, instead of swimming skills to make people comfortable in the water.
When people are certified without the water skills, and only have the ability to rely on their gear, they become accidents waiting to happen.
More deaths, countless accidents, huge costs in the form of liability and accident Insurance, rescues, and treatment.

Why?
Because these people don't have the same commitment and training as you.
They SAY it, but can't Do it.

That is why I am in favor of regulating this industry.

ASW[/QUOTE]


You make a sound case for why divers should be better trained than they are, and why certification should be tougher than it is. I don't disagree with this at all. But my question is, how does placing an expiration date on certification answer your concern?

I agree with Ace that our world has gotten rule-happy. I guarantee that if the government steps into the diver certification process, there won't be one diver in the country that will be happy with the outcome. There is no way that government regulation would improve the diving experience or make it any safer.

I just feel that we are far better off with the type of self-regulation system we have now. It's not perfect, but who knows more about diving - the certifying agencies or a group of political-appointee bureaucrats in Washington?

What we should be doing is promoting advanced dive training to our friends and diving partners. You don't have to get in their face and tell them they are a bad diver, but you can tell them how you benefited from this training or reading that book, and so on. I belong to a dive club where egos get checked at the door. When we dive with each other we actively seek out critiques,practice skills together, and freely discuss all aspects of diving. This kind of "community spirit" mindset to continuing education is far better than writing a renewal check to a government agency every few years.

Mountain Dog

[lars2923]

What is the posted question again and what is it intended to ask?

You take a test both written and practical every Y number of years.
If you've been keeping up on your skills, it shouldn't be a problem. If you
haven't been keeping up then remedial training is required through any dive
agency.

I do not want any governments involved in any of this. They'll just screw it up
and diving will no longer be an adventure.

The dive industry has been very good at self regulating, let's keep it that way.

We've seen from time to time, an individual we said to ourselve, man they
need more experience, practice, whatever. These are the types of people
we're takling about. The ones you say, "should they be doing this dive" The
one you when ask them and they say "Who are you to tell me I can't", the
ones that feel they need to push their limit a little too far too quick. You can
choose not dive with them, but you came to dive. It's not fair, but life not
fair.. Should something happen to them and you were not there to help, or if
you were, the experience, the memories. I can go on and one and a million
post can add a million more reasons. There are a million ways this can be
handled and will not be resolved in a forum.


So whats the point of writing all this stuff about should and shouldn't good for
other than a way to vent our personal opinion on what we perceive to be correct?

So keep up the input, maybe someone will collect everything that is written
and formulate a conclusion that will say recerts is a fad or a fact.
Who knows...???

[acelockco]

So whats the point of writing all this stuff about should and shouldn't good for
other than a way to vent our personal opinion on what we perceive to be correct?

Can't that be enough?

[Quero]

...let them be shark bait...
...You can't spend your entire life worring about everyone else.
...bottom line, more room on the dive boat for me...

But when a diver is trained in rescue techniques (as a rescue diver, for example) and is on a boat with a "shark bait" diver who needs rescuing, the rescue diver is morally bound to participate in the rescue as long as it does not present an unreasonable danger to her/himself; further, s/he may be *legally* bound as well. For dive professionals the duty of care (i.e., "worrying about people") is even more pressing. Saying that unskilled divers who may get into trouble are "shark bait" and "leave more space on the boat" for more proficient divers is a bit harsh, IMO.

While I do not believe that most divers I see need full-scale bi-annual recertification documentation (as described by DiverDaniel), I can recognize that this kind of across-the-board regulation is easier to enforce than a reporting system that would require individual divers to get a refresher or give up diving. If the agencies themselves made a strict 6-month rule, there would no doubt be a hue and cry claiming they were doing it simply to "sell" a refresher course, with that tired old refrain "the almighty dollar" rearing its ugly head.

[acelockco]

You know and another thing:

I want everyone to think really hard now, don't you all remember your dive instructor saying this is only a license to learn when you were getting certified.

So if that is the case, the retest is pointless, maybe you are learning slowly. Is there going to be a law against that as well? So then I guess that there will have to be a minimum IQ level required to get certified? When will this all end??????

Also, if you are one of the people that think this is a good idea, put your money where your mouth is. If you really feel this is important, are you going to pay for this? Now are you going to pay for all of us that will be forced into this and did not want it?

I didn't think so!

[acelockco]

But when a diver is trained in rescue techniques (as a rescue diver, for example) and is on a boat with a "shark bait" diver who needs rescuing, the rescue diver is morally bound to participate in the rescue as long as it does not present an unreasonable danger to her/himself; further, s/he may be *legally* bound as well. For dive professionals the duty of care (i.e., "worrying about people") is even more pressing. Saying that unskilled divers who may get into trouble are "shark bait" and "leave more space on the boat" for more proficient divers is a bit harsh, IMO.

A bit harsh, yes, but that is the way I usually am.

As far as an unreasonable danger, how is this for reasonable. If I am on a dive boat and see something happen, I think I could make the danger reasonable as long as I had already completed 1 dive. See, during your surface interval you are decompressing, it is not advised to do much physical activity while decompressing. I think being in any part of a rescue operation would put me at risk of getting decompression sickness. Now that is my story and I am sticking to that one.

Now I definately understand your side of things as you are a dive operator and have to take responsibility of these people. Most operations take care of this by requesting to see your log book so they take you to an appropriate dive location. I know you are not going to be taking newly certified divers to the deep technical dives with low visibility and strong currents. Just as I know if you enjoy having a long term business, you will also not bring highly skilled divers to the shallow 25 foot reef that has 100 feet of visibility, no current, no challange for them and nothing new to see.

Isn't it nice that you can do it how you want rather than being told another way to do things?

[Tigerbeach]

Yeah, I'll pay for ya Ace.

I know you are getting older, and forgetful sometimes...LOL

[acelockco]

Yeah, I'll pay for ya Ace.

I know you are getting older, and forgetful sometimes...LOL

OK, now I am really laughing. We gota do some dives together sometime! I am sure we would have a blast!