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Thread: Yet another senseless death

  1. #11
    Wreck Diving Moderator acelockco's Avatar
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    There is still not enough information to understand anything but the fact that she is dead. To try to find a lesson or prove a point is mute because we don't know!

    Why does there always have to be a lesson learned anyway?

    You want a lesson? Here is a frekin lesson:

    The dive training agencies are lacking and again are concerned about getting training classes and of course profits from them. They want as many certified divers as they can get out there so they can sell more classes and more gear.

    If they would focus on really lengthy and in-depth training, forget trying to make everyone pass. I always see people in SCUBA class that I honestly feel should not be diving because they just don't feel comfortable and can't ever perform things right without help. Those people will usually panic in an emergency. BUT we have to teach them and get them certified, because the agencies tell us so. They will always get certified even if they have to take the entire class again, unless they quit. So even if they don't belong in the water, eventually they will be certified if they really want it.

    Do you think NASA would send someone out to do a space walk with a 2 week class(similar to scuba) and send them out with a "certification to learn" while they are out there. No frekin way!!! They train for a long time and read books, take tests and study and practice a lot (not a few pool sessions and 4 dives). Guess what, if they screw up, they are out. With SCUBA if you screw up, the instructor will hold your hand and make you pass.

    Maybe if we had real training and not the basic OW1 bull we would have less dead divers. Funny thing, you have to take the risk on your own before even taking some of the more advanced classes, because you need minimum numbers of dives.

    So I guess their theory is learn as little as you can to get in the water. Practice as much as you can and if you don't die we will teach you the important stuff (like stress & rescue )later.

  2. #12
    Registered Users hbh2oguard's Avatar
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    First off Lottie, aborting a dive isn't drastic at all, it's wise.

    amtrosie I couldn't agree with you any more with what you said. In any and all rescue efforts, YOUR(rescuer) safety is most important, which includes making sure the scene/conditions are safe to enter. Next is your fellow rescuers safety, then any by standers. Finally it's the victim's safety, yes at the very bottom. One victim is better then two so NEVER attempt to help if you don't have the training/ability. It might sound harsh but you wouldn't have to put your life on the line if it wasn't for the victim.

    acelockco there is always a good lesson that can be taken away from ANY event no matter how big or small. Again I couldn't agree with you any more about OW cert. Everyone passes, it's a joke. For some reason people don't respect the power of the water, especially the ocean. I grew up in the water because my dad is a full time ocean lifeguard, and now I am. I've surfed fifteen ft. plus waves and know how powerfull the ocean is. I know any time I enter the water, I'm putting my life in the hands of the ocean. I'm extremely comfortable in the water which is required to dive. People that become certified, can't swim worth a damn and aren't comfortable in the water. So when a minor situation comes up they panic, and sometimes they pay the ultimate price.

    So respect the ocean, and no matter how many classes you've taken make sure you are extremely comfortable in the water.

  3. #13
    Wreck Diving Moderator acelockco's Avatar
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    hbh2oguard

    I grew up in a shore town and lived in the water. I surfed during the winter storms when I was younger (high school) and rowed on a crew boat in high winds and choppy bay waters (white caps), swam across the bay to the marsh grass islands, even fell through the aparently not so frozen ice(not but hip deep!), so I completely agree with you and know how powerful and deadly the water is no matter if it is the ocean, bay, river, etc.

    I also remember when there very few certified divers. I remember how difficult it was to become a certified diver and how serious you had to be to understand everything that was being taught. We did not rely on dive computers to determine our dive, we figured it out before we left the boat! We had to tread water for 10 minutes while holding a brick above our head with both hands. That was brutal!!!!

    My wife was certified about a year ago and her class was a joke compaired to what I learned in my OW1 class. She still does not really know what I consider important things. She now has 31 dives loged and I still would not let her dive without me keeping a close eye on her. She is going for her advanced next month, so I am sure she will pick up some more info, but really it should have been taught from the begining.

  4. #14
    Registered Users hbh2oguard's Avatar
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    falling through ice... no thank's

    Maybe it's because I'm still young but I find AOW, rescue or what ever a waste of money. Personally I didn't even trust my instructor during my OW. I read the book, listened to what he said but knew it was my responsibility for my own life. Our fist open water dive was at a sandy beach with about three feet of surf. The instructor told us to enter right as the sets were coming. Well I let everyone go ahead to get pounded, once the sets came through I strolled by them while they were trying to fix their masks. If taking classes makes you more confident that's great, personally I'd rather dive with knowledgable, expierened dives. Not only do I learn a lot, it's free. Maybe I don't have the card but I have the knowledge, or atleast most of it.

  5. #15
    Wreck Diving Moderator acelockco's Avatar
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    Man, I understand that completely.

    I was at my local dive spot a few weeks ago and met another diver there. He is a current and certified instructor so of course we were talking. You should have heard the things he was saying. His words and dive theories made me seriously wonder how he made it this long. I am not going to go into details, but lets just say I would NEVER want to learn from him, especially from example.

  6. #16
    Registered Users hbh2oguard's Avatar
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    It's sad but true. I guess it proves the old saying which I believe goes like this: those who know do, those who don't teach.

  7. #17
    Wreck Diving Moderator acelockco's Avatar
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    I have never heard that before, but I am laughing because it seems so true at times.

  8. #18
    Salty SeaDog's Avatar
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    I Took OW in Hong Kong from a Bilingual instructor, She was very competent and very thorough. I took AOW and Rescue in the States from an Instructor who started diving when plesiosauruses swam the ocean I think. Very knowledgeable and again thorough. I'm a working diver and spend about 4 days a week in the water on average. Both of these dive shops cost quite a bit more than say Sports Chalet or some of the "Cuter" beach dive shops and after diving with students from them I know why. When your looking for training, The lowest bidder isn't the way to go. I disagree strongly that "AOW, Rescue, and the others" are a waste of money. With the right instructor they can be invaluable. The scariest thing I've ever faced in the ocean is a panicked diver. I'm glad that on those occasions I knew what to do and when. Thanks to my Instructors. Keep learning, just choose your instructor as carefully as you should choose your gear.
    just a Seadog's opinion
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  9. #19
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    I think seeing a plesiosaurus would scare me a bit more than a panicked diver, but not by much.

    I agree with SeaDog that the advanced courses are extremely valuable. There is no such thing as too much knowledge. But, as many have pointed out, the quality of the education can only be as good as the quality of the instructor.

    Let me also add that the quality of the student is an equally important issue. A student who enters the class believing it is a waste and that they won't really learn anything, won't. Like everything else in life, you get out of it exactly what you put into it. With every one of my instructors I have asked numerous questions, grilling them for information. I do not let my instructors get by with just teaching me the least amount necessary to pass the class. I think instructors (at least the good ones) like being challenged. If they know that you really want to learn, they will go the extra mile to give you everything they can.

    Just a Mountain Dog's opinion.

    Mountain Dog
    It's not the destination, it's the journey.

  10. #20
    Registered Users hbh2oguard's Avatar
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    Hey ya two dogs

    Sea dog I fully agree the sport chalet is a joke of a dive shop and a training agency, even though they are padi approved. I attempted to take AOW through them and my class was canceled three times, so I said screw it. Plus they wouldn't fill my tank that was spray painted. The only reason I wanted AOW was for the night dive. Found an expierenced buddy and had no problem. So like I said before, dive with someone more expierenced and you'll become a better diver, and that goes for anything in life.

    Just a life guard's opinion

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