PADI Direction

[Argonaut]

Not really a case of ruffled feathers. I just have precious little patience for hyperbole and sweeping statements spouted by people who set themselves up as speaking with authority when they actually have the facts wrong. (I've been told by the OP that it's called "humour" and I guess it is pretty funny to see him make himself look like a git. ROFL
.....

and I hope your subsequent postings actually contribute to discussions rather than just trying to stir things up.

# I don't see myself as having been made a git at all.

# Also I did not at any time mention that I was speaking with authority

" I just have precious little patience for hyperbole and sweeping statements "

My post was to mention a genuine PADI direction, in a light hearted way, and it seems it was seen that way by others.

I am a PADI certified diver, and have also certified under the club system with BSAC (in 1974), so I have seen both types of Diver eduction ... the long detailed, but low cost non-profit making club method, and the pure business approach of PADI.
Having been invloved with both - I am happy to pass comments - but as a diver, not as someone who as you say "set themselves up as speaking with authority"

In my post the only facts I quoted are correct ... that PADI offer e-learning, and teh full face mask speciality, the rest was jest.

I received an email yesterday prompting me that I had joined the forum, but never made a post, and invited me to do so.
I did, and it seems I am castigated for my first post - should I have just meekly paid homage to somebody first ?

I understood that unmoderated forums were places for people to discuss what they wanted to, (diving related) and readers could choose to read or ignore.

I dive for fun, not for income, and I take part in various forums for fun & information exchange. (and sometimes education), and banter.
Other forums welcome such people ... if this forum is only for 'serious exchanges' .. then I don't belong here and I'll happily delete my subscription.

[acelockco]

Don't let Quero scare you off.

We all must remember this is an forum where everyone is invited to state their opinion. It does not matter if you are the CEO of PADI or someone that has never gone diving before. There is no prereq. for this forum, and you don't even need to be a certified diver which is a great thing. We are here because we love diving, love to talk about it, love to think about it and love to discuss it.

There are always going to be differences of opinion here, and even a little poke or prod here or there is cool. Just never take it personally! We are all dive buddys and really should look out for each other. Maybe if we are lucky our relationships here will allow some of us to actually dive together.

Remember it is our differences of opinion that allow us to learn from each other. Personally I feel we have a great group here. I value all of your opinions and welcome you all to come dive in my local dive spot any time.

[Quero]

I understood that unmoderated forums were places for people to discuss what they wanted to, (diving related) and readers could choose to read or ignore.

I dive for fun, not for income, and I take part in various forums for fun & information exchange. (and sometimes education), and banter.
Other forums welcome such people ... if this forum is only for 'serious exchanges' .. then I don't belong here and I'll happily delete my subscription.

I also belong to a lot of scuba discusion lists, and only one of them is unmoderated: (I have deleted the URL because of friction between that site and this one--Q) Maybe you should check it out?
On all of the others, without exception, agency bashing considered poor form.

Anyway, I'm not a mod. I just call it like I see it. You didn't put your post in the "jokes" or "chat" forum of this board, but rather in a "basic scuba" training forum. I don't know about you, but I take training seriously, and I take jokes in the spirit they are offered. Your post was an agency bash, no matter how you frame it.

[acelockco]

On all of the others, without exception, agency bashing considered poor form.

.

So having an opinion on an agency is bashing?

Well I don't think so!

I also believe that it is only considered poor form in your mind. Bottome line is Argonaut told it like it is and added his/her sarcasm. 100% allowed.

Considering you are in instructor, you should be even more concerned as in a few years you may be out of a job.

Oh yea' you are NOT a mod like you said, so your 'rules' only apply to you.

[Quero]

oops. managed a double post somehow

[Quero]

So having an opinion on an agency is bashing?

Well I don't think so!

I also believe that it is only considered poor form in your mind. Bottome line is Argonaut told it like it is and added his/her sarcasm. 100% allowed.

Considering you are in instructor, you should be even more concerned as in a few years you may be out of a job.

Oh yea' you are NOT a mod like you said, so your 'rules' only apply to you.

<sigh>
No, having an opinion is not bashing. If Rick (the OP) had said that there was an unfortunate (in his opinion) trend towards e-learning in scuba, giving one or two agencies as examples, and laying his reasons out, that would be one thing. But Rick blatantly bashed just one agency, mentioning it by name many more than a handful of times. Here's a link to a discussion on the BSAC board (which I belong to) that follows a model of reasoned discussion with many people on both sides of the issue. It's a pleasure to read PADI eLearning - BSAC Scuba Diving Forums

Yes, PADI (among other agencies) is introducing e-learning. Yes, many are uncomfortable with the idea of e-learning. As for me, I'm taking a wait-and-see position before jumping on a soap box. Did you know, for example, that SDI has just launched an e-learning version of underwater navigation? I reserve judgment until I've seen the course, but I do know that even after walking patterns on land students struggle with their headings when they have a tide or a current pushing them off course underwater, and I know that online training will have to work hand in hand with in-water training to help students get a real handle on nav. OTOH, maybe SDI's software throws challenges like that into it--like in a video game It might be brilliant or it might be a disaster.

Saying that scuba instructors will be out of work before long because of e-learning sounds just like what people said when computer technology first started showing up in school classrooms. Oh! Teachers are being replaced! It was alarmist at the time, and it turned out to be soapboxing at its best. Over the past 15-20 years classroom teachers have embraced CAI (computer assisted instruction) and have made it one more tool in their repertoire of teaching techniques. I expect the same to be true of scuba instruction down the road. We instructors will not be replaced by technology; technology will simply make our jobs easier.

And no, it's not just in my mind. I can't figure out where the TOS resides on this site, but, quoting from DiveChick (list moderator) in relation to DIR bashing,

...no troll zone. If someone wants to rant about DIR or anything for that matter, then they can do so in the Rants, Meltdowns and Beefs Forum within the guidelines of being civil, as all good ideas can withstand the test of challenge...

Bottom line: Rick engaged in agency bashing. If I wanted to read that sort of "sarcasm" I'd go to the Rants forum of this board. Agency bashing just reflects badly on the basher.

[acelockco]

Whatever....

You are not going to change my mind and I am not going to change yours. I believe the post was fine.

[allisonfinch]

I think the original post was RIGHT ON!!! I totally agree that basic diving has been dumbed down to the point that many divers are just plain dangerous.

This move to e-learning is carrying this trend too dang far IMHO. It will be deadly to the LDS. And, who is going to monitor the "wet" sessions these people will, HOPEFULLY, be required to participate in.


ARGONAUT, I found your post extremely humorous (still pounding the desk laughing). I also found it hit, in a fun way, a seriously horrible direction of the dive certification industry. It would figure that PADI would initiate it. Much that I personally think has gone bad with the dive industry was started by them for the almighty $$$.

[Argonaut]

ARGONAUT, I found your post extremely humorous (still pounding the desk laughing). I also found it hit, in a fun way, a seriously horrible direction of the dive certification industry. It would figure that PADI would initiate it. Much that I personally think has gone bad with the dive industry was started by them for the almighty $$$.

Exactly the way the post was intended ... glad you took it the way it was meant, and understood the humour.

[hbh2oguard]

I guess some just can't take the truth even if there is a little humor tossed in