I don't understand, can you please explain?Originally Posted by thalassamania
I don't understand, can you please explain?
OK, but the point is for $600 they could have bought 200 plastic hardware store toilet seats that were just as light and functional. Even if they broke and had to be replaced every month, the cost would still be MUCH less than $10k over the useful life of the airplane. While I wouldn't mind our government spending this money if it was necessary, I do mind that they are spending it while so many more important problems exist that need that money. We don't have universal health care, there are people starving in our own country, we have an environmental crisis on our hands, there are over 2 MILLION people in jail in our country, our public school system has gone to hell in a hand basket, I can go on and on and on.
I say give them a plastic toilet seat, and take care of more important issues with the remaining $1,999,400 OR lower taxes A LOT!
It costs, quite literally, millions of dollars to train a SEAL. If we can make his job even a tiny bit less risky by spending $5,000, then that is money well spent.
What folks don't realize about the toilet seat question is that is more a piece of accounting BS than actual seat cost. There is more put into the seat than most folks realize. You can go down to home depot and buy a plastic toilet seat for $20.00, but what did the one that is currently on your toilet actually cost? did you add in the time to select it, the vehicle expenses to pick it up, the worker expenses to install it, etc.? Those are some of the overhead costs you incur getting a seat, there are many more in industry. In addition, overhead for the entire program is typically assigned on a contract by dividing it up and allocating it equally to each item or system, this often makes an everyday item seem to be very expensive to people who do not understand the system or who have a need to make political hay.
The problem is it does not cost $5,000 that is the point, it costs a lot more. And does it really make anything less risky? I don't really think so, but again that is not really the point I was originally trying to make, I was saying it is way too expensive for the general public.
The one on my toilet cost under $30, it took me about 15 minutes to drive to the store, 10 minutes to find and pick out the seat, 10 minutes in line and 15 minutes home. It took about 5 minutes to install it. I suppose at the rate of $.45/mile, it cost me about $10 in vehicle expenses. So $40 of actual expenses and about an hour of my time, even at $40 an hour that is still under $100, so we still have $9,900 unaccounted for. The REAL reason for the insanely high prices in political BS. Remember that some of the suppliers to the military are owned by the politicians, so of course it is in their best interest to overcharge, and again in their best interest to make sure the government pays for it. Think about it, they are the ones with all of the money and a retirement plan that would make ours seem like a joke.
No, you failed to add in overhead. Assume that you bought 100 things to fix the house last year. To account for overhead you need to take everything that you paid to live in the house including rent or mortgage, taxes, utilities, food, heat, water, electricity, laundry, etc. and divide that by 100 and add that quotient to the toilet seat. That's the way the accounting works.
It's real easy for the populist, know-nothing politicos to make a big deal about it, they don't understand the basic assumptions of the system, they take a myopic, microeconomic view and use that misinterpretation to crank good people like you up over the mythical $10,000 toilet seat. That keeps you distracted and focused on the evil contractor; rather than the pork barrel set asides that your not supposed to notice.
Ace,
What you are failing to account for is the fact that your application of said toilet seat is not the military's application. In a sub, plane, etc., when they are thrust into a combat situation, your $20.00 seat will splinter when hit. Very easily one those splinters could impede that soldier's ability to fight. (splinter in the eye, hand, leg, etc.) That could very well be the weak link that the enemy is able to exploit to atain a victory. (death to that person)
Another way to see it is this: An aircraft seat is designed to withstand a 16 g force. In an accident/incident, a sub-standard seat could break loose, causing severe harm, and probably death for those in the path of that seat. Are you willing to "go cheap" on that seat for a couple of bucks? You would be first in that chorus, calling for improved parts, and improved safety standards.
Toilet seats?
Interesting how things can get side tracked. Just clicked on this thread to find it had moved from HUD mask discussions to the cost of toilet seats in millitary aircraft.
That is the other point, there are many places where the testing of parts costs orders of magnitude more than their civilian retail price (e.g., the fittings for a non-magnetic MK-15). Don't forget that the costs associated with the design of the testing regime and the test equipment get added in to the cost of the part.
Gotta keep up.Interesting how things can get side tracked. Just clicked on this thread to find it had moved from HUD mask discussions to the cost of toilet seats in millitary aircraft.
We were talking about military toilet seats that have a heads up display, weren't we?!
With crappy middle aged vision, I can see the characters in the mask perfect. My problem is I need the right eye with a magnification diopter, and my left eye needs to see the heads up display of my rebreather with the left magnification diopter, both cemented in. This mask would interfere with the left eye's vision of my HUD, but Oceanic's plan was to integrate the masks' HUD with the rebreather controller, so no need for an external HUD.
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When all the mask stuff is sorted out that may actually be the impetus to put my Mk-15 back together. Weird how it works sometimes, I haven't felt like working on it in years.We were talking about military toilet seats that have a heads up display, weren't we?!
With crappy middle aged vision, I can see the characters in the mask perfect. My problem is I need the right eye with a magnification diopter, and my left eye needs to see the heads up display of my rebreather with the left magnification diopter, both cemented in. This mask would interfere with the left eye's vision of my HUD, but Oceanic's plan was to integrate the masks' HUD with the rebreather controller, so no need for an external HUD.
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