Too young to dive?

[Daddy-h2O]

I let my then, 11 yr old daughter get certified. She was after it from the time she was 7. I had, under the supervision of an instructor/ Shop owner in a SASY unit from the time she was 5. I took her to several Scuba experiances to wear the gear and try it in the shallow end of the pool.

I do not regret getting her certified but, I will admit she needed to have a bit more muscle. Her instructor was also a friend of mine and an awsome instructor. The Instructor, regardless of agency is the most important piece of the puzzle for students.

What do yopu do when you come across a diver who "has no business in the water" ?

Do you offer a friendly hand because at some point, in some way, we have all been there?

or

Do you walk away in disgust at the lack of compentence and/or training in our sport? (After all to gain a Basic Open Water Certificate you only have to meet a minimum requirement)

As far as swimming is concerned, I know SSI has a swimming requirment as part of their basic open water certification.

[hbh2oguard]

If someone has no business being in the water I will NOT help them at all getting in. If they are in trouble in the water it is my job to rescue them, because all ocean lifeguards know you're always on duty. I personally feel that far too many people are certified that have no business being certified, not just basic cert. it goes all the way up to instructors. All you have to do is take classes, you don't have to have any ocean knowledge which if diving from shore in the ocean is critical.

[Sarah]

Daddy-O, what a great Dad you must be!

[Daddy-h2O]

Daddy-O, what a great Dad you must be!

Thanks, I am.

If someone has no business being in the water I will NOT help them at all getting in. If they are in trouble in the water it is my job to rescue them, because all ocean lifeguards know you're always on duty. I personally feel that far too many people are certified that have no business being certified, not just basic cert. it goes all the way up to instructors. All you have to do is take classes, you don't have to have any ocean knowledge which if diving from shore in the ocean is critical.

Then your real gripe is with the training angency pumping out student for the sake of cash over safety. I have no beef if you decide not to help, but no action does nothing to help them from becoming a statistic we don't need. The certifing agency let them down. as a collective group and to keep our sport safe isn't it also our duty to help them. A good Buddy doesn't begin below the surface and end after getting out of the water.

As far as ocean knowledge is concerned how would you propose teaching ocean knowledge?

I could fall into your catagory, because of the nearlly 200 logged dives, and approximately 20 or so non-logged dives (short dives in and around stuff that I decided not to record) it was not until recently that I got to do 5 dives in the ocean.

See where I live fresh water is the norm, would you keep me out your ocean and stay out of my fresh water? (because you would lack the knowledge to deal with fresh water conditions in much the same as I would lack knowledge about salt water)- just a thought

[hbh2oguard]

Well I been in the ocean all my life, so that's how I learned, and only expierence can teach you. Yes I can't stand the turn over to make money, instead of actually teaching. There was one guy in my class that I was amazed passed, they told him to dive with a dive master but still gave him his c-card. Also I didn't say I wouldn't help. I won't help someone getting in because if you can't get in on your own, you shouldn't be in the water. I will help if they are in trouble in the water, and two weeks ago I rescued a drunk kayaker floating sideways on his capsized kayak. It ended up being a big deal, firefighters rappeling down a cliff and two lifeguard boats, all the while I was off duty enjoying myself diving. Also it was on my way back after a 1/2 mile swim to a sunken barge. To your last comment, yes I wouldn't dive in fresh water without studying or getting tips from experts. Also I wouldn't go, unless I was going with someone that has been in a simular location. I need to have the knowledge of someone I trust has the knowledge/experience before I dive in a new place. Maybe I'm just too safe, but I don't think so. But I wouldn't keep you out of the ocean, and I'd expect the same.

[Daddy-h2O]

Okay at the risk of being argumentitive...

I have no experiance in the ocean, therefore I do not belong? Are you saying that there needs to be more certs? one for fresh water and one for salt?
How do YOU determine who is fit to deal with the water?
There are hundreds if not thousands of handicap divers that may require help getting into the water, are they exempt?

See it is a nasty slippery slope... Some if not all of us were ignorant of what thet water hold for us before getting certified. I for one was not prepared to fight the urge to surface radiply the 1st year I was diving. Towards the end of nearly every dive I wanted the surface NOW!
If only those knowledgable of the water were allowed to dive, there wouldn't be so many of us.

Any ways we hijacked this long enough.

[hbh2oguard]

Yes it's a very slippery slope. Here is an example that I saw while exiting a recent dive. There was this guy carying two bcd/tank units in the water. One he had on the other he was carrying. This location was a very easy sand entry. Next I see his buddy, I guess, hack away attempting to swim out to him. I would never put my self in that situation. I watch them and his buddy made it out, but if I saw that at work it would be an instant rescue. My buddy was even amazed, and shocked. I fully agree that handicap divers may need help, and if I was comfortable with their ability in the water I wouldn't hesistate to help, there is a difference. Maybe more certs would help but I'm only OW and I feel fine with my abilities. I dive with buddies at work who have gone through ever class and they are on the dive team, and I feel just as confident as them. I can't speak for fresh water but people don't respect the ocean and water in general. They don't realize the power it has, which I do. I've been out surfing in 12ft+ waves with no problem but I realize that with one slip up and I could be in a world of hurt. If you don't have any expierence, like I don't in fresh water, get some advice and dive with someone that knows the location. To tell if someone is fit in the water, it's very easy to tell. Watch them, and see what they do. Please don't hesistate to respond, you're not being argumentitive.

[Daddy-h2O]

Your job may give you some insight to humans around water.

We do all sorts of diving from shore to boat diving and lots of limited vis. We get large swells of three to four feet on some of the smaller lakes to 10-12' on the larger ones. As far as I am concerned water is water. The ocean dives I did, did nothing to convince me otherwise (granted we were diving from a boat on reefs. But other than the color(fish and coral), slightly better vis (time of the year) and salt, I may have just as well have been in any of the lakes I dive in now.

Every agency states that you must be comfortable in the water to complete thier course. As I have no insight to people around water, it is easy for me to agree to help them in or out of the water. with that said there are some divers I simply will not dive with one on one anymore. Some of them are Tech divers who believe that buddy diving is dangerous and every dive should be considered a solo dive, Some are too new and are coming around and will be good a dive buddy in the future (because we help them), 5% are divers with more dives than you can shake a stick at and are just plain arogant about it. They simply seen everything done it all and you can't tell them anything.


Just out of curiosity how many dives do you have to be so comfortable?

How would you "train" some one for an ocean dive?
(The only experiance you can give them is to put them in it.)

And let me turn this around a little, what questions would ask about fresh water diving?

[hbh2oguard]

I agree that salt or fresh, water is water. I haven't been around lakes much but I do know the power of the ocean. I didn't realize that lakes got that large of swells. So maybe the only difference is that you can drink one and not the other. I know to me that it's really wierd that the water wasn't salty when I went white water rafting this summer in Canada. I really don't have all that many dives logged, not nearly as many as you. I've only been diving for a little over a year and have sixty dives logged. I guess I feel so comfortable because all the dives except cert dives were from shore, and most of them were with my same buddy. I think that I'm especially comfortable because I've grown up in the water, only two blocks away and I'm an ocean lifeguard and my dad's been one for thrity years. Also I swam and played water polo throughout high school, and I'm currently swimming for the college I go to. I can't give you the answer on how to train someone, bescides children about the ocean. I learned from my dad, junior guards, and expierence. I guess the best way would be to just watch the water, fellow dives, and ask the locals. I guess the only question I have is what considerations, or changes do you have to do to dive in the altitude? I know you can reprogram a dive computer for the altitude, but I don't like to rely on an electronic device reason being that my computer decided to give me little waring about the battery life, and stopped working in the middle of my dive. Luckily I knew my tables, had a watch, and knew how deep I was and how deep the location was. I also had my buddy with a working computer. Again feel free to ask more questions so we can both learn from one another.

[seasnake]

hbh20guard, were you originally saying that you wouldn't look at some one who obviously is at a dive site that is beyond their abilities, and then help that person get into the water? I can agree with that. Why help them hurt themselves? The only way newer divers are going to get better is by more experience, and more experienced divers can help them by taking them to dive sites that ARE within their abilities and buddying up on dives with them.