It is the place for a rant! But it is so true! The really said part is I have been very good at prognostication about the last 30 years!
It is the place for a rant! But it is so true! The really said part is I have been very good at prognostication about the last 30 years!
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could not agree more
What people fail to consider is that the earth naturally goes through cycles.
I'm all for polluting as little as possible and finding renewable sources of energy, and better ways of dealing with our waste. But let's use some common cents.
First let us consider that a theory is just an educated guess and just because a theory is accepted as plausiable does not make it fact.
1) How do we know what the Hole in the OZONE layer was doing 30 yrs ago, we have only had the technology to register it for the past 10. It's a guess
2) If the world is so much warmer now, how did the vikings farm in Iceland?
I'm old enough to remember David Suzuki ( Canada's leading voice on climate change) having a special on CBC in the seventies. exclaiming that mankind will have to learn to adapt to the new ice age. And he spent 2hrs supporting this theory with " scientific facts about the Earth getting colder over the last 1000yrs and the polar caps are advancing at a rate of 35cm /yr and the glaciers have increased in size etc...etc...etc.
So 30 years later we have a new accepted theory, that the climate is warming. And it has for the last 1000 years, but that the rate has increased in the last one hundred, and the ice caps and the glaciers, which have been receding since the last ice age, are increasing the rate of receding over the past 100yrs.
So now we have new popular "theory" and all the environmentalists once again on the doomsday band wagon:
1) The polar bears are disappearing!!!
Could this not be because in the last 100yrs man has been able to harvest the resources of the artic and been putting pressure and the habitat of the bear.I could go on and on but won't.
And the governments are worst. Every time they need support they come out with a new environment plan-to help slow the warming of the earth and everyone buys into it. This is just Fear Tactics to rally support.
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Hitler, Napoleon, Caesar, Genghis Khan Have been some of the more notable users of the same tactics to rally support. But fear mongering has been a political tactic since the first man said give me your support and I will lead you, I know what is best for us.
The reason they do this is because if we are primarily worried about this. We don't worry about all the people killing each other in the streets, and the Family that is Starving and living in cardboard boxes. Or that they have messed up our countries (any country) through bad ideas. Here in Calgary it is the worst. Every time the city council wants to do something they know the population will not like they review the anti smoking law and get all the fanatics from both sides up in arms again, the media just eats this up as well. You can't read a paper or watch the news without seeing the issue. And when the smoke clears you read a little blurb on the 9th page or at the end of the news. How city council has given themselves a raise again or how my taxes will go up another 4%.
"From birth, man carries the weight of gravity on his shoulders. He is bolted to earth. But man has only to sink beneath the surface and he is free.”
Jacque Cousteau
With all due respect, it is usually considered important for one to at least appear to have actually gone out and learned something about the topics of concern before floundering about to shape one's own opinion, not to mention struggling to influence the opinions of others. Such learning traditionally begins with mastering the spelling of some of the words that are critical to the discussion. Most people learn to spell these terms as they familiarize themselves with the subject, so the lack of familiarity with correct spelling is oft confused with ignorance of the topic. An occasional typographic mistake is usually overlooked but systematic errors in spelling, punctuation and grammar cause readers to dismiss the author.
If one wishes to be taken seriously on the question of climate change it helps to know that "ice age" is two words not one. If one is to effectively oppose "environmentalists," then do not refer to them as "enviromentalist." Political opinions are best directed against governments rather than "Goverments." Commentary concerning the northern latitudes carry much more weight when reference is made to the Arctic rather than the "artic." It is generally considered good form to capitalize the first letter of the names of sovereign nations such as Iceland and Canada.
Historical observations are most effective when the names of those discussed are spelled correctly and conjunctions are used. Not, "Napolion, Ceasar, Gangus Kaun," rather "Napoleon, Caesar and Genghis Khan." One does get points for spelling "Hitler" right, but in the absence of spelling any of the other names correctly one runs the risk of having one's audience wonder why that's the name you're most familiar with.
Ok , Ok
Sorry about the spelling, had not had morning coffee and forgot spell checker . LOL
"From birth, man carries the weight of gravity on his shoulders. He is bolted to earth. But man has only to sink beneath the surface and he is free.”
Jacque Cousteau
I feel like I am Mrs. Schroeder's grade four class again. LOL
You were right that was a poorly written response.
In truth I had just awakened. and after reading " Papa Bear's" post I felt the urge to go on a rant of my own.
Now would you like to post your own opinion on the subject at hand or are you in fact Mrs. Schroeder returned to haunt my academic nightmares once again. LOL
What people fail to consider is that the earth naturally goes through cycles.
I'm all for polluting as little as possible and finding renewable sources of energy, and better ways of dealing with our waste. But let's use some common sense.
First let us consider that a theory is just an educated guess and just because a theory is accepted as plausible does not make it fact.
1) How do we know what the Hole in the OZONE layer was doing 30 yrs ago, we have only had the technology to monitor it for the past 10. It's a guess
2) If the world is so much warmer now, how did the Vikings farm in Iceland?
I'm old enough to remember David Suzuki ( Canada’s leading voice on climate change) having a special on CBC in the seventies. Exclaiming that mankind will have to learn to adapt to the new ice age. And he spent 2hrs supporting this theory with " Scientific facts about the Earth getting colder over the last 1000yrs and the polar caps are advancing at a rate of 35cm /yr and the glaciers have increased in size etc...Etc.etc.
So 30yrs later we have a new accepted theory that the climate is warming. And it has for the last 1000 yrs, but that the rate has increased in the last one hundred, and the Ice caps and the Glaciers, which have been receding since the last ice age, are increasing the rate of recession over the past 100yrs.
So now we have new popular "Theory" and all the environmentalists once again on the doomsday bandwagon.
1) The polar bears are disappearing!!!
Could this not be because in the last 100yrs man has been able to harvest the resources of the Arctic and been putting pressure and the habitat of the bear.
I could go on and on but won't.
And the Governments are worst. Every time they need support they come out with a new environmental plan. To help slow the warming of the earth and everyone buys into it. This is just Fear Tactics to rally support.
Hitler, Napoleon, Caesar, Genghis Khan have been some of the more notable users of the same tactics to rally support. But fear mongering has been a political tactic since the first man said give me your support and I will lead you, I know what is best for us.
The reason they do this is because if we are primarily worried about this. We don't worry about all the people killing each other in the streets, and the Family that is Starving and living in cardboard boxes. Or that they have messed up our countries (any country) through bad ideas, and bad policies. Here in Calgary it is the worst. Every time the City council wants to do something they know the population will not like they review the anti smoking law and get all the fanatics from both sides up in arms again, the media just eats this up as well. You can't read a paper or watch the news without seeing the issue. And when the smoke clears you read a little blurb on the 9th page or at the end of the news. How city council has given themselves a raise again or how my taxes will go up another 4%
"From birth, man carries the weight of gravity on his shoulders. He is bolted to earth. But man has only to sink beneath the surface and he is free.”
Jacque Cousteau
The critical piece of global change evidence that is being ignored (because it is perhaps a bit more difficult to understand) is the rate of CO2 production. The best analogy I can make is that we're traveling down the highway, we're still under the speed limit, but the accelerator is to floor and it is stuck. We need to unjam the throttle, lift our foot off the accelerator and step on the brake before we are way over the limit and traveling at a speed that guarantees a fatal crash.
Warmer here, colder there, none of that matters. What someone conjectured thirty years ago is entirely irrelevant. Science improves with time, but predicting anything that is outside of your actual data set is always fraught with problems. The error bars on climatological data were so large thirty years ago that meaningful prediction was just this side of witchcraft, that's not so today. There is no doubt amongst the science community that on average things are warming up and that clearly observable phenomena correlates with anthropogenic CO2 production. All the details are not known, and hopefully never will be known, for the only way to know them in complete detail is to actually change the climate significantly. Enough data is in that most all scientists feel that we need to take the question seriously.
I have no doubt that CO@ emissions need to be controlled. That would be just part of the pollution I was referring too. The opinion I was stating is that the part played in " Global Warming " is merely a theory, an educated guess, NOT as some would think fact. I do not dispute that science has improved over the last thirty years. But when people are creating computer models of the past, to predict the future. They are still entering Temperature data that was collected in the past.Originally Posted by thalassamania
I am a software engineer, I can make a computer simulation tell me anything "I" want. depending on the "fact" I would like prove.
The question now is, what will science prove 30 yrs from now? it's just a guess.
Hypotheticaly it's possible that in 1490, The leading scientific minds were stating to the King, that science is so advanced now that we can state conclusively that the world is indeed flat.
Just a thought.
"From birth, man carries the weight of gravity on his shoulders. He is bolted to earth. But man has only to sink beneath the surface and he is free.”
Jacque Cousteau
Well said Papa Bear. I think it is ironic that when we look at the geologic record we see that mother nature can be one hell of a suicidal bitch. I am concerned about pollution today, but the planet has unleashed far more destructive forces against itself than everything humans has thrown at it combined. As Conrad pointed out, the planet evolves through cycles.
By the way Conrad, I searched for the message in your post rather than angles to attack the individual behind those ideas should I have found myself in disagreement with what was stated; I was taught that is how intelligent debate flows best. Plenty of great minds throughout the ages have suffered problems of one sort or another-poor grammar, horrendous spelling, arithmetic errors, lack of strong coffee in the morning to get them firing on all cylinders, etc.-yet still offered some great ideas that advanced mankind. This is an internet forum, not a formal peer review, so I am willing to overlook certain mistakes in favor of hearing opinions.
BTW PB, what's the no fire in Cali thing you mentioned?
DeWayne aka Gobwats
The safest way to dive solo is to refuse to dive with an idiot.
Dave Sutton
Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum - Ambrose Bierce (1906, Devil's Dictionary)
Papa we normally agree on 95% of issues that have come up on this forum but this is clearly one issue we won’t ever agree on and I’m glad this is under the rants section. I agree fully with our border situation, the last numbers I came across, we were already a minority in this great state of CA. Just so you know, 1984 and Animal Farm are both required readings in school, or at least where I went to school. I know we both agree about the sunscreen killing coral reefs, but you never replied on that thread, what happened? Here’s something to think about, and again it’s just my opinion: we don’t have to worry about running out of oil but rather we have to worry about running out of our atmosphere due to the burning of fossil fuels.
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