Diver Killed by Shark

[BamaCaveDiver]

To me government is the problem not the cure!

Now there's a statement I can whole heartedly agree with

[Quero]

Sorry Papa, but I disagree. I have had numerous shark encounters, from a wide variety of sharks, without having had to chum the water or tempt them with bait. It's quite possible to see Apex predators without having to resort to this practice, however you would need to accept that you will be treated to an encounter as and when they decide to come by and say hi, there's no gaurantees.

<snip>

Nature's secrets are not a comodity to be sold and paid for, if she decides to expose a little more of herself to you, then accept it as a gift and respect it as that. However if you choose to force your way in and take what's not given, don't be surprised if she rewards you with a sharp reminder of who's really the boss.

Excellent post, bottlefish!

[Quero]

I too have experienced "shark attract" dives as well as seen sharks just cruising by in the daytime or hunting by night. I much prefer to see them without any manipulation. It's the same for the famous manta night dive on the big island of Hawaii. What a disappointment the experience of sitting around on the sand holding huge lights up to attract the plankton so that the mantas will come when I compare it to waiting on the ridge at Koh Bon island here in Thailand and seeing them come in to feed without any particular manipulation of the environment.

[Papa Bear]

Sorry but it was ridiculous statement! Dive operators utilize the environment and exploit nature in oder to make a profit all the time! "Come see our beautiful reef" I have heard you say it! So hypocrisy is alive and well I see! Parks do it, countries do it, operators do it, and I see nothing wrong with any of it! Maybe we should all stay home and watch it on TV? Yes that too would be exploiting it for profit! If you don't make a profit how will you show it to anyone? Please!

Ya! Great post!!

[Quero]

Sorry but it was ridiculous statement! Dive operators utilize the environment and exploit nature in oder to make a profit all the time! "Come see our beautiful reef" I have heard you say it! So hypocrisy is alive and well I see! Parks do it, countries do it, operators do it, and I see nothing wrong with any of it! Maybe we should all stay home and watch it on TV? Yes that too would be exploiting it for profit! If you don't make a profit how will you show it to anyone? Please!

Ya! Great post!!

I don't believe you are sorry. You very commonly use the same tactics in your postings that any troll worth his salt makes use of: statements meant to belittle others, negatively charged language (see for example, your use of "ridiculous" and "hypocrisy" in your reply to me), antagonism and intimidation, and twisting people's words (the word I used, "manipulte" emphatically does not equate to "Come see our beautiful reef"). Nobody questions your right to hold the opinion you hold, yet you question the right of any who disagree with you to believe their opinion is equally valid. I can see (and should have known) that having a civil exchange of viewpoints is impossible in this thread.

[Papa Bear]

That's the nature of hypocrisy you use it to put others down, look at your own post involving me, and yet don't see that they engage in the same activity! To clam that you don't exploit nature and charge for it is just plan either hypocrisy or a lie! You chose! Your a dive professional, why do you think people want to dive? Could it be to see the fish, the Reef, or just to get wet? I can SCUBA in a pool, but guess what, there is no nature to see in your pool, you want to see nature close up and personal! Speaking of calling someone a "Troll" is a little inflammatory wouldn't you say? This is a discussion board and if you can take the discussion try using smoke signals, your eyes will water but your feelings wont be hurt!

Stop and think about what you do before casting stones at others that do the same thing! If you had the chance to better your life by showing people your natural wonders and didn't I would worry about you as a man!

BTW in some peoples minds using a motor and boat is manipulation! To some entering the water is changing the "Natural" environment! Food in the ocean is not natural? Hummmm? You should checkout the other things fish do in the ocean! If you can't see they are the same, just a matter of degree!

[bottlefish]

Sorry but it was ridiculous statement! Dive operators utilize the environment and exploit nature in oder to make a profit all the time! "Come see our beautiful reef" I have heard you say it! So hypocrisy is alive and well I see! Parks do it, countries do it, operators do it, and I see nothing wrong with any of it! Maybe we should all stay home and watch it on TV? Yes that too would be exploiting it for profit! If you don't make a profit how will you show it to anyone? Please!

Ya! Great post!!

Again, you've misinterpretted what I've said (or twisted it around to make your point?)... perhaps the way I chose to wrote it was a little bit too subtle for you? If so, let me know and I'll try and rephrase it a little simpler so as you can understand.

[Papa Bear]

If you think I have misrepresented any position you have stated please feel free to state it any way you want it! "You and I have completely different beliefs and ideas" kind of makes it clear to me where your at? But maybe you don't understand where I am and are therefore confused as to witch way end the shark food goes in? Sharks being the "Scavengers of the Sea" putting automobile license plates in the water could be considered "unnatural feeding behavior", but then again we are talking about sharks!

[bottlefish]

But maybe you don't understand where I am and are therefore confused as to witch way end the shark food goes in?

Ah, more ridicule and abuse. Quero is right, there is a bit of a trend. Not quite sure how my ability to undertstand your thought process would be intrinsically linked with understanding the mechanics of a shark, still you obviously though it was a valid point to make, I'm sure there's some sense somewhere.

I haven't mentioned exploitation, Quero didn't either. For now, try and forget that word.

Instead, think of manipulation. That is, how we influence or manage events for our own personal gain.

Driving a boat around, jumping in the water, etc etc, may certainly alter the behaviour of the aquatic life, however this isn't manipulation, this is a resultant effect of our actions.

Swimming along a reef, watching aquatic life going about it's daily business isn't manipulation either. Exploitation perhaps, yes, but IMHO not necessarily to an unethical or immoral level.

Throwing chum off the back of a boat to attract sharks in so as we can jump in and see what we want to is manipulation. We are influencing and managing events for our own benefit.

Hope that clarifies the point I was trying to make - and please, don't come back with a post about what you believe is natural, what you believe is exploitation or how pathetic you think my thoughts are as valid reasons for why you believe what I've said here is wrong.

Manipulation, that's what we're discussing.

[Papa Bear]

It maybe to you, but it's food for the shark! They don't know the differences! So what difference does it make! That's my point! It changes nothing! Does food demonstrations at the market change your behavior? I hope not, but then again I guess you could end up with people going for market to market putting together a meal?!!!!

The whole point is we need to stop putting our values on this type of activity! I get you don't like it, but so what? Don't go! Don't support it, but so what? Let the market and people decide! In the meantime it is a legitimate save activity that is less dangerous than the drive to the boat! It doesn't hurt the animal (Shark) and again the guy died of panic not the shark bite!

I am drawing attention to the fact that one persons opinion of an activity is just that your opinion! I don't see any problem "Manipulating" or "Exploiting" nature for profit is it is a symbiotic relationship! I would rather see a village make a living showing a reef than harvesting its bounty! Shark trips are the same! I would rather chum, feed, and Manipulate shark behavior than fin them!