Diver Killed by Shark

[Papa Bear]

I too have been in the water with many many sharks around the world! But if you read what you have posted you have put human qualities to the shark! The shark doesn't know its "Provided by man" they may associate the boats to the food in response, but not the man, the men get in the water when the boat shows up! In a simple brain function I am not sure there would be a indirect connection..... Are they less afraid of a man in the environment? probably, but is it the food or the constant interaction that posses no threat?

When the USS INDIANAPOLIS went down the sharks started out shy, as they do, and became bolder as time went on! That is their natural behavior! I am glade YOU don't want to control shark feeding, but too many want to control every aspect of our lives! I just cation people not to over react! It looks like the guy died from an embolism and as always panic killed him not the shark!

My contention is that the shark follows a behavior pattern and it is driven by instinct and not by mans actions! If it were they would be so many caught and killed, because they would have learned to stay away from nets etc! But they are creatures of habit and opportunity! We use that opportunity to get closer under safer conditions to a wild animal!

We just need to understand that people will use our own words against us pointing the finger of blame! We need to take responsibility for or own actions!

[seasnake]

This is an interesting discussion. I guess I never thought of it this way, but if I am understanding it right there are really two issues those against shark feeding dives are raising. 1) Chumming is not natural and it produces unnatural behaviour, even conditioning the sharks to unnatural behaviour. 2) Putting sharks in feeding mode and then putting tasty divers next to them is increasing the danger to unacceptable levels.
Is that an accurate summation?
I thought Papa Bear made an interesting point about the shark not knowing the difference between the food source, but when you add in the conditioning factor would you say it still holds? The only way then you could compare chumming and eating carrion (is it still called carrion in the ocean?) is if whales always went and died in the same place. Then again, now that I think of it there are really two types of feeding dive operations, aren't there? Chumming in the open water and also hooking a bait ball or chumsicle to a fixed point on the ocean floor. I wonder, does the response from the sharks differ in these two instances?
With those perch I mentioned before, they are so conditioned to being fed by divers, if you hold still for a moment, they literally line up in front of you, pec fin to pec fin, and wait for the hand out. Very annoying when you are trying to take a picture. These are small fishies, I think their brains may even be smaller than my own. lol ..

[Conrad]

If the shark is going actually get something out of it. Then it could be considered a Symbiotic relationship. The shark would get food and the diver would get his picture. Then it just a matter of personal choice on the part of the diver. There is a matter of risk to the diver but most things worth while come with a price.

The problem I see with chumming is there is not alot of actual food in the chum, it's more of an lure then a food source. The shark basically wasting his time and energy. Which he should be spending surviving.

[BamaCaveDiver]

I've seen Bluegill ponds where all you had to do was walk out to the end of the dock (where their feed container was) and they would immediately begin schooling around in large numbers expecting someone topside to start throwing food to them. I've seen the attack Perch at various ow sites that seasnake mentioned. A number of years back I heard stories about a guy who ran a fish camp on Tiger Lake (one of the many in the chain of lakes formed by the Kissimmee river as it cuts through central and south FL) who had trained a rather large bass to leap out of the water and take food from his hand. I really though that was total BS until I went down one day, saw the photos on the wall and the scars on the guy's arm. Dumb animals, regardless of brain capacity can learn; that is the whole basis for evolution as I understand it.

I agree that this has been a very good discussion. Hearing both sides of an argument is a great aide in forming an informed opinion. While I may disagree with some of what I have read, I have yet to read anything that I would consider wrong. I'll always favor common sense over enforced regulation.

[bottlefish]

We just need to understand that people will use our own words against us pointing the finger of blame! We need to take responsibility for or own actions!

Papa, if I have intepreted what you are saying correctly, then I think you have misinterpretted me!

My issue with my belief that shark feeding is not natural has nothing to do with safety concerns. It has to do with the fact that we are trying to control nature, it abhors me as much as the continued attempt to control humans seems to abhor you. IMHO it's another indicator of the total disrespect we have for nature.

In terms of safety, of course, jumping in with a bunch of excited and hungry sharks is going to have an additional risk, but if the diver is aware of the risk and happy to do it, then go ahead. I did the sardine run last year, much the same scenario, except the water was chummed naturally through the debris of the sardines... absolutely fantastic, if a bit hectic

[Papa Bear]

Man is an animal and therefore a part of nature! The fish don't know natural from unnatural! They have no standards! I really disagree that we have no respect for nature! We spend billions protecting it, we are giving up freedoms daily for it, we will trash governments who don't put it first! We have made it a religion! And that is just wrong! We are the masters of our domain and are charged with its care, but no where is it written we should give all, for "Our Mother earth!" Some day this earth will die! The Sun will vaporize it and the moon will pulled from orbit, so we move or die! Simple nothing last forever, not even sharks!

[littleleemur]

That would be Vic Hislop, self acclaimed shark hunter extrodinaire and protector of the water inclined amongst us. He's a classic character, has a "museum" of shark exhibits just off Arlie Beach in Oz, displaying teeth and info from his kills and some what one sided "facts" about why all sharks should should be destroyed.

He's failed to catch even a red snapper every one of the 3-4 times in the past 10 years! Why they keep bringing him back is a mystery. What is also a mystery is why he keeps on eating suspect street food from illegal hawkers. I heard that he ended up on an IV in the ER the last time.

[Papa Bear]

The media works that way! They find the people who talk their talk, one sided YES! I have also heard that a competitor is using this to try and shut down competition! All Bahama shark dive boats now have to carry cages! What a waste!
Who could be afraid of this cuddly little dude?
[IMG][/IMG]

[bottlefish]

We are the masters of our domain and are charged with its care, but no where is it written we should give all, for "Our Mother earth!" Some day this earth will die! The Sun will vaporize it and the moon will pulled from orbit, so we move or die! Simple nothing last forever, not even sharks!

Think I'm going to back outof this conversation now, you and I have completely different beliefs and ideals, no more chance of us agreeing then Geroge Bush conversting to Islam.

[Papa Bear]

Couldn't agree more! To me government is the problem not the cure!