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Thread: Study Claims Sunscreen Killing Coral Reefs

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa Bear View Post
    I don't buy the primes! The idea that 25% of Sun Blockers are washed of has no factual evidence! "90% in CA" I am still looking for the coral reefs in CA! Please! Math is wrong, assumptions are made, bad science, and dad testing methods! These so called Scientists should get an "F" on there report cards!

    BTW Coral reefs are doing fine and there is NO evidence that there is any extraordinary climate change! US industry does not pollute coral reefs! Recreation also does not damage coral reefs unless you walk on it! Not a lot of commercial fishing is done on reef structures it destroys nets and equipment as well! I think you need to get out from behind your computer and find out the truth for yourself! Your facts are just not true!
    I hope you are being sarcastic. If you did this just so I would answer all your questions, look it up yourself. I have an 18 hour class load, part time job, and volunteer work to keep me busy enough.

    What you just said sounds totally idiotic to ANY scientist, and probably to others not in the science community. Just because you don't understand the science done in the study doesn't mean it is wrong. Please document the sources that say everything is just peachy. I'm about to graduate with degrees in animal science, wildlife biology, and international agriculture, and I need to think of a new career path if that is the case. I would love to be out of a job, unfortunately, humans tend to screw up things like the environment.

    The study may not be entirely right, but it does support compelling evidence that ingredients are causing increasing viral infections in algae, leading to coral bleaching.

    1) They didn't pull the 25% of sunscreen wash off out of their ass. If you read the study, they did a controlled experiment. It is pretty easy to check, actually. The actual procedure is on page 10 of the study, 11 of the pdf. I posted it below since you obviously didn't read the entire study, only the parts I posted. It is a 34 page pdf. I'm not going to post EVERYTHING from it when I talk about it.

    "Quantification of sunscreen release in seawater To estimate the amount of UV filters and preservatives released from sunscreen formulae, 2 mg sunscreen cm-2 (dose recommended by the Food and Drug Administration, US) were applied to the hands of two volunteers. The hands were then immersed in 2 L of 0.45 μm filtered seawater at 24 °C for 20 min. Hands without sunscreen applications were used as controls. All experiments were repeated three times. The percentage of sunscreen released into the seawater was estimated by HPLC analyses on the sunscreen and seawater samples. To this regard some authors suggest that the sunscreen dose recommended by FDA is much lower than the amount actually utilized by tourists (Giokas et al. 2007 and literature therein), so that the quantity of sunscreen released during an usual bath could be far higher than that estimated in this study." (Danovaro 2008)

    2) The study never claims there are coral reefs in California. The use of ca. before data is an abbreviation for approximately. Double check your scientific abbreviations.

    3) I never claimed humans were causing global warming or that there was a HUGE jump in temperatures all of a sudden, but there is scientific data that shows global temperatures are increasing slowly. This is concurrent with the data that arctic and antarctic ice is decreasing. Here is a link about decreasing arctic ice. I have little doubt polar bears will go extinct in my lifetime because of it, which sucks because they are one of my favorite animals.

    http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2006-107

    4) There are some links below about problems with coral reef health.

    http://www.gbrmpa.gov.au/corp_site/k...nfluences.html

    http://www.reeffutures.org/topics/pu...s/cots-bro.pdf

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0108150436.htm

    5) People don't like to realize that they are swimming in a bunch of crap, but when you get down to it, the ocean is filled with it. Do you really think cruise ships carry the trash and human waste around the ocean then dump it on land? Nope, into the ocean. Most waste plants on land dump the stuff that can't be purified enough for human consumption into the ocean or rivers, which lead to the ocean. What about oil spills? Where do you think the waste from poorer countries goes? Often, American owned hotels and resorts take advantage of the lack of infrastructure in developing areas to disregard any environmental waste management.

    http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=12467

    Don't even try to claim there are no problems with excess run off of agricultural products into freshwater and marine systems. Stuff like that isn't even hard to test for. All you need are water samples and then tests to check for the different chemicals. Why do you think there are dead zones around many cities or areas with lots of industry? *coughgulfofmexicocough*

    6) While there are still issues with shocking and dynamiting for fish, the main problem is that the commercial fishermen are over harvesting, and that screws up the ecology of coral reefs.

    http://www.cotf.edu/ete/modules/coralreef/CRanthro.html

    7) You say you can't hurt coral unless you walk on it. Yeah, that is the problem. New scuba divers with bad buoyancy and trim hit coral, people want to take some for souvenirs, people anchor boats without regard to the coral below them, etc. It happens.

    http://celebrating200years.noaa.gov/...html#solutions

    Take a look halfway down the page, and there is a picture of an idiot standing on the coral.

    I don't claim to know everything. I'm landlocked until I graduate with my bachelors, then I'm moving to an ocean to study marine sciences for my masters and PhD. Hopefully there will be something left to run experiments on and save by the time I graduate. I admit my knowledge of ocean systems is not nearly what I want or need it to be, but that is why I read studies and when I question them, I try to figure out the answer myself.

    Like I said, list your sources. I would much rather spend my life as a DM and instructor than documenting a bunch of biodiversity loss (i.e. DEATH) around the world and trying to fix what can be saved.

    Rachel

  2. #12
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    Why do you keep saying they when it sure seems like you are part of it since you are defending the study left and right? He's not being sarcastic and for the majority of the points he makes I fully agree and it doesn't sound totally IDIOTIC to THIS scientists. I don't know what school you go to in Kansas but that's far away for any ocean, and when the hell did classes become expressed in units of hours? Why don't you try units, credits? We all have jobs and we all help out for free! If this is your senior thesis that's great but some of us just don't agree and get over it! Global warming is indeed a fact of life, and temp increases are occurring at a faster rate now but predictions are usually wrong and the likely hood of polar bears becoming extinct isn't all that great in the near future. I agree with some of what you say about dumping but it's not all true, and what about oil spills? They are pretty minor compared to other environmental concerns, it's just that their affects are obvious. What about nuclear power plants releasing radioactive decay into the ocean from the cooling water? That's a little bit of a bigger issue that isn't being dealt with. It's quite obvious, and very noble of you to admit your ocean knowledge is basically nothing as you do in the next to last paragraph. If you want to know a great school, which is quite possibly one of the countries if not the world’s best school to go to if you want to study marine sciences feel free to ask, because it's the university that I'm currently attending.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by swimmergrl View Post
    Like I said, list your sources. I would much rather spend my life as a DM and instructor than documenting a bunch of biodiversity loss (i.e. DEATH) around the world and trying to fix what can be saved.
    I'm assuming you mean can't unless your were going to look on the bright side of things. Biodiversity isn't always bad either it might be loss for one thing but gain for another. One other thing, why would you want to teach more divers to come on in and destroy coral reefs and swim in crap? Since that's all divers do, why add to the problem?

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa Bear View Post
    I am still looking for the coral reefs in CA! Please!
    Does hydrocoral count???

  5. #15
    Photo & Videographer Papa Bear's Avatar
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    As a coral yes! As a reef No!
    May all your dreams be wet ones! Visit us at Twotankedproductions.com
    Reed's Rod dive Tool Please help save the worlds Coral reefs! http://safemooringfoundation.org/

  6. #16
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    Swimmer, Scientist have agendas too! They vote and many are liberal and they tend to no the out come before it is proven by real science! Can it be duplicated in a lab? Observation is 60% or more of science, but it is not evidence unless it can be duplicated! You saw a picture of some one standing on coral? Oh no, Mr Bill! So what? You have not experienced anything except what your instructors have feed you! We are now within 1% of the normal northern Ice Cap! Hummm?

    We just had record snow fall and a Russian scientist who is predicting 30 cold years. The Ocean has risen 3/4 inch every hundred years since the last Ice age and its right on track! So the science can't get the models to run backwards to what we have to day! It's an open system with too many variables! Period! NO CRYSTAL BALLS!

    We have 25000 Polar bears were we had only 5000 in the 50s! Is the world changing? Hell yes, it's the only thing constant! You can count on change!
    The pictures of the starving bears were taken when?

    Many times the weatherman has to look outside to see if it is raining! Try to look outside once in a while!
    May all your dreams be wet ones! Visit us at Twotankedproductions.com
    Reed's Rod dive Tool Please help save the worlds Coral reefs! http://safemooringfoundation.org/

  7. #17
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    Just a post note! Fish and whales urinate and defecate where they live! OOH!
    So we are all swimming in ****!

    hbh, no radiologically active material are in the effluent of Nuke Plants! The bottom of the Ocean being closer to the mantel is a huge source of radio activity! It has been suggested that spent fuel rods encased in glass could be safely disposed of at the bottom under thousands of tons of pressure where the ambient background radiation is higher than the spent rods! But not PC! It is where science meets politics!

    As scientist it is your job to buck the normal and think out of the box! Observation, investigation, recreation, duplicate, then it might be real!

    One of my earth science professors used to say "You can't save Half Dome! It will be a beach some day!"

    One last thing, until the next, read Dixie Lee Ray's Trashing the Planet!
    Last edited by Papa Bear; 02-26-2008 at 06:07 AM.
    May all your dreams be wet ones! Visit us at Twotankedproductions.com
    Reed's Rod dive Tool Please help save the worlds Coral reefs! http://safemooringfoundation.org/

  8. #18
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    This is getting uncivil, and away from the subject of the study. The whole point of publishing studies is for peer review. This breaks down when the people criticizing it haven't actually read the study. Answer me truthfully. Have you read the entire study? Don't judge a book by its cover. The title is very misleading. The use of the word sunscreen was a catchall for effects of butylparaben, ethylhexylmethoxycinnamate, benzophenone-3 and 4-methylbenzylidene camphor. If you are going solely by what I've pasted from the study, you are missing most of the picture.

    The reason I ask for sources, is because I want to read them. I want to gather all the information I can, and make my own decision. Papa Bear, I will read that book. It probably won't happen until spring break as most of my classes require reading, but I will get to it.

    I have a bunch of stuff to do today, but I will post why I think this study is important later tonight. I think you might find it more "out of the box" than you currently see me.

    About the 18 hours? Those are 18 credit hours. As I've never had a misunderstanding about it before, I assumed it was a widely accepted and understood use.

    Last thing, take a look at the people who ran the study, and where they are located. It should be pretty obvious I wasn't a part of the study. Stop trying to attack me to disprove the study. Even if I was part of it, why shouldn't I be able to support it? My friend presented his findings on some experiments he's done with greater prairie chickens this last weekend at a natural resources conference, and when he finished, people asked questions, and he answered them. It is part of the peer review process. It is hard to put everything you've done in a 15-30 minute talk, or even a 34 page study.

    Rachel

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    This is why I went into mathematics, fewer lay people who care enough to argue with you

  10. #20
    Photo & Videographer Papa Bear's Avatar
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    You aren't being attacked by me, otherwise you would know it, my only problem is it is just like the current shark attack! A headline meant to scare and shock! I have not and will not read the whole study once I did read the method used, because a faulty study based on 2+2=5 will always create a flawed out come.

    As far as posting sources, this is not a science paper and I don't need the grade, but easy to find on Google!

    I science and life you need top develop a little bit of tough skin! I can't speak for anyone else, but please do not take what is posted here personally, it is not meant that way at all! I may attack an idea, but never the hand that delivers it!
    But I do bite back
    May all your dreams be wet ones! Visit us at Twotankedproductions.com
    Reed's Rod dive Tool Please help save the worlds Coral reefs! http://safemooringfoundation.org/

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