What is, and what isn't DIR?

[WarmWaterdiver]

we all can agree that safer divers is the goal of every training agency. we can all further agree that no agency insists on precise gear configurations except GUE. The point of contention is not whether a diver is a safer diver and better buddy because of his DIR training but does he really need the gear in that exact setup?
Secondly, why is it that any diver wishing to take the GUE-Fundamentals course must have all the gear as prescribed in the GUE handbook? I could agree that all equipment must meet specifications for a tech 1 course or tech 2 course but for a fundamentals course?
If this training is superior to that of other agencies, and from the course syllabus it appears to be, why restrict that training only to those who dive with a BP/W and 7 foot hose on a primary second stage with a short hosed octo connected by necklace to the diver? And why exactly is it necessary to only have stiff black non-split fins?
I am contemplating taking the GUE-F course and do not mind springing for a BP/W. I think I will end up liking the BP/W once I get used to it and forget about all the pockets and weight integration features of my jacket style BC. But come on, do I now have to get new hoses for my reg? Throw away those split fins and get the kind that will make Jarrod Jablonski happy?
Please do not consider this a DIR/GUE bashing. It is not intended that way. I wish all agencies spent as much emphasis on buddy OOA training and buoyancy. I doubt if the GUE course is a joke as was my AOW course.

[amtrosie]

Warmwaterdiver,

All very good questions!! I have completed the GUE-Fund. class, and when I approached my instructor regarding some of your very questions. I had read the GUE literature and saw how adamant they were about specific gear. My Instructors response? Come to the class with the gear you have (I had a PB/W). There is NO stipulation for a specific color. New products coming on to the market are usually one color until the manufacturers see the demand for that particular product.

The fins I will address specifically. During my class I was using Mares Quattros, and I loved them. During class I was diving steel 95's and was over-weighted. My instructor asked me to dump my wings and SWIM to the surface (from 12', 4 meter pool bottom). I kicked and kicked and kicked and finally resorted to using my arms and hands to struggle to the surface. My Instructor simply said "your fins were folding over while you were kicking". Why use stiff "old" style fins? Because they work while all others fail. Is all diving that extreme? No, but it only takes one time to rethink my fins. I do not want to be in a situation that requires me to kick hard and not have the fin to support my requirerment.

The fundamentals class is a foundational class. It is meant to provide the diver with the basics for all other diving. If you chose to take other classes (tech or cave) then you have a GOOD start. If you chose to go no further, then you will find yourself a FAR SUPERIOR and accomplished diver. What is the down side of that?

Finally, the class itself. As you indicated, the fundie class is not a joke like a AOW class. I had been diving for years and had already been certified as a full cave diver when I took my Fundie class. That first day in the water was THE WORST day I have ever experienced with a regulator in my mouth. Why? Simple, I was no where near the accomplished diver I thought I was and the "crow" that I ate was bitter. It was all my doing, not a thing that the instructor said, for he said very little. Just said the technique is this, now lets do it. I improved and am a much better diver as a result, Oh yeh, I am safer and much better prepared as well.

[WarmWaterdiver]

Thank you amtrosie for a thorough answer.
This morning, I enrolled in the Feb 23 Fundamentals course at High Springs. I am going off this afternoon to buy a Halyson Eclipse BP/W rig with a Hogarthian harness. A good benefit is that I can try it out in a 16 foot deep pool before buying so I get a free dive.
I have XS Scuba Power fins and hope they are satisfactory.
The thing that kills me is that I will not be allowed to use my SmartCom computer. I hate to give that up for a simple SPG.
I will not have the same problem as you, amtrosie, I know I am not a good diver and if I perform poorly, I will be frustrated but know I have a long way to go.
I hope to get out of this class with skills I now lack and the knowledge to be safer, better and more aware of how to improve.

[BamaCaveDiver]

While I am definitely not DIR (I do consider myself a staunch advocate of the Hogarthian method though from which DIR sprang) there are some merits to the gear configuration they prescribe. The BP/W combo has the advantage of making it easier to maintain a horizontal trim in the water column as opposed to the jacket style BC's. The trade off is that the BP/W will not float you head up at the surface. The BP also aloows you to move weight from your hips up onto your back, again making it easier for most to maintain a more desirable trim in the water column by better focusing your center of gravity. It is not a one size fits all thing, you must still take into consideration the cylinders you will be using as well as your exposure protection. You can get a BP made of very lightweight plastic or AL (typically weighing 2 lbs or less) or you can opt for an SS plate in varying thicknesses that will see the weight range from 6lbs (standard SS plate) to well beyond 10 lbs. The idea is to find the plate that best suits your style of diving. AL cylinders which tend to be bouyant at lower pressures will require a heavier plate as opposed to stell cylinders which typically remain slightly negative to neutral at lower pressures.

Split fins are very inefficient for the wide range of finning techniques one should be able to perform effortlessly. They excell in providing forward thrust with a full flutter kick, but really suck for anything else. Some people have been able to master other finning styles in these, but they are rare exceptions. The manner in which split fins channel thrust also brings to light the issue of stirring up silt and sediments if you are close to the bottom.

Despite the disadvantages some equipment may have, I still advocate that a diver should make use of that which best suits his or her individual needs for the environment in whuch they will be diving. The GUE classes are no different from any other agency's in that the most important factor regarding the quality of the outcome is the instructor, not the agency.

[Archangel]

If the shoe fits....wear it... Just make sure it's the "Right" shoe for the task at hand. (and it better be black, or Stainless, or you will be thrown to the GATORS!)

Black is the new black!

Or in the case of drysuit Blue Smurf gloves, blue is the new black.

Hope this helps,

Tevis

[Diverdaniel]

[QUOTE=seasnake;631]

Why is there so much Debate in DIR?

"In all the standard dive training, one message is very clear. Do not dive with a goal or mission orientation as it will cloud your judgement. "


I've never seen or heard that promoted before ... I agree having a goal, and then a plan to reach that goal, can lead to safer dives.

i too have never heard of this,
dives should have a goal but there are safety limitations that are covered in the briefing, "What-Ifs" and that mission is only a sideline, Personal Safety and staying alive is the real Goal.
so, if we dont acomplish what we came there to do/dont finish the job/cant find the wreck/run low on air for whatever reason/water conditions dont allow a safe enough dive All This ===== Abort the dive!
totally agree with Seasnake on this one.
more to come...

[Diverdaniel]

this las fortnight a GUE Instructor was in town (Eilat Red Sea)
i spent a great deal of time with him, talking about lots of DIR/GUE stuff.
what used to bug me, i mean really turn me off about this whole business was the religion style but hey, seems i was mistaken, this religion does not come from the Instructors themselves, it comes from a certain type of person, that my friends is something i dont wish to talk about now.
I got a specific and logical explination from this instructor about all the equipment configs, why this reg and not this one, why all the specific gear for every dive, the lot.
i also got a whole load of the philosophy not concerned with equipment.
i want to tell you that the stuff i heard from this group of divers especially the instructor about how to dive, the right way, nothing to do woth DIR, its stuff we incorporate in the Institute i work in Waaay b4 DIR was ever invented. i do not say that this is the ONLY way to dive, but i sincearly think that it just might be the most efficiant, one of the sole safest (when comes to group dives) ways to dive, thje backup one has from group and unity in config, no need to learn my buddies config which is usually very different from mine. only thing is the Specific equipment thing, Im a diving instructor/D.S.O (i'm ghetting Married in October btw), so, money is an issue. meantime i have my not do GUE regs and rest of equipment.
my Fiance(also a tech diver) and I have enrolled in the next Fundies that will be held here on October 11th (2 days after our wedding)
i expect a very hard time
i'll tell you about it.

[BamaCaveDiver]

Yeah, I have heard the "it's a lifestyle choice, not just a training mantra" before and laughed while DIR types turned up their noses to sandwiches simply because of the meat (so just how does their fearless leader justify all the habitat hotdogs?) What is even more funny is to watch one sneak off and have an orgasm while sucking down a smoke out of sight (or so they thought) of everyone. The fact that you had an instructor explain the why's is great, but see how many followers can offer the same explanation without the need to memorize a bunch of lines first. There is some pretty good thinking that went into DIR, shame more of their instructors do not do as good of a job explaining why in addition to how.

[Diverdaniel]

Bama, one can only imagine this is a slight change of lifestyle invovved, i dont know about mantra, but then, i am no DIR or GUE diver yet, i cannot venture a knowlage based opinion on this one. habitat hotdogs? what are those please?
i dont know about sneaking off to steal a smoke, who thought?
as far as the why's are concerned:
i only know 1 GUE instructor personally.
as an instructor, i too try to explain the why's and how's as best i can, it is one of the magor obligations, if we want divers that will not kill themselves. at times i get through, well and good, at times i dont..... well, try try again.
unfortunately in the diving world we live in, instructors get a hard time if they take too long on a course. why ? .......... ok, this is another thread, sorry.
bottom line is, alot of instructors might not wish to take the time to explain in Length the how's and why's while others go to the extreme to explain it, even if it means half drowning the student, so he/they understand WHY to ditch the weight belt and what happens if they dont when heavy and on surface(just an example). depending on the course, that is.
ok, this is turning in to a another thread again.
from what i do know about DIR/GUE system looks great abd sounds great.
they really did do alot of thinking, again, people memorizing lines is not a good thing as you say, i agree, we dont always understand fully what we are taught, only after a period of time does it register to some, and im afraid sometimes not at all with others so, they keep on reciting what they have memorized.on the otherhand, and this is my last 2 cents i know i type lots
i do know some instructors that teach a certain way and when asked: "cause thats just how it is..."
!?
again sorry for the length.

[bubble-maker]

To me DIR means knowing your gear, making sure it is in good condition, Knowing your personal limits and using your common sense when diving, not allowing others to "make you do something you are not comfortable doing. I agree with having your gear set up the same way for each dive. Being able to reach for something and finding it rather than trying to remember where you hooked it at is a good thing. I am a "recreational" diver. I have no desire to do "tech" diving. I LOVE my BC! I am a happy diver. In my opinion: I am doing it right!