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Thread: What is, and what isn't DIR?

  1. #51
    Wreck Diving Moderator acelockco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amtrosie View Post
    BamaCaveDiver is 100% right in having two equally high performing regulators as primary and secondary.
    Good, but you must note that your Octo. is going to be detuned compaired to your primary. It is done this way to prevent freeflows all of the time. On some of the better regulators you will have an adjustment of some type to prevent the freeflow situation, but then give you the performance when you really need/want it.

  2. #52
    Wreck Diving Moderator acelockco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amtrosie View Post
    You contradict yourself.
    But how can the King be wrong, he has a wallet full of C-Cards he bought and volumes of dive log books(Over 4000 pages!!!)?

  3. #53
    Cave Diver amtrosie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acelockco View Post
    Good, but you must note that your Octo. is going to be detuned compaired to your primary. It is done this way to prevent freeflows all of the time. On some of the better regulators you will have an adjustment of some type to prevent the freeflow situation, but then give you the performance when you really need/want it.



    A free flowing reg can be stopped, simply by repositioning the reg. Better yet, don't put it out in the water such that there is a constant flow of water over the diaphragm (purge button area), creating a lower pressure area, which in turn collapses that diaphragm, allowing the gas to flow. All this is far more prone to occur when the back-up reg (octo) is placed on the right shoulder or r/h side of the vest. This is another reason that I advocate the use of the long hose for the primary reg, and place the back-up reg on a bungee around my neck. I dive in high flow cave's, or with a scooter, and a simple proper positioning of the bungeed regulator prevents the free flow. Thus, no detuning of the reg is required. And.......I WILL NOT HAVE A LESSER PERFORMING REG AS A BACK-UP!! Think about this for a second. In an emergency situation, an OOA diver, panicked, frantic, scared, etc., you hand them a difficult breathing reg? That difficulty in breathing will just escalate the panic, not quell it! A high performing reg, breathing easier, will allow that panicked diver to begin to relax and regain control of the situation! Now you, as the doner, will not be dealing with a panicked diver, which always has the potential to place you directly in harms way. (now there are two potential dead divers) What is the down side?

    As for the opinions of others...... they are that, and they must be allowed to express them. We do not have to agree, and the best rebuttal of any fallacy is the truth, presented in a well thought out, logical rebuttal. I have disagreed with you on many an occasion, and yet, no fireworks. If I can not disagree with a good argument, than I am most likely wrong! Being wrong is never a pleasant pill to sallow, but none-the-less, it is the pill that makes us better!!! If others refuse to accept this, THEY are the tortured soul seeking to align themselves with others.

  4. #54
    Wreck Diving Moderator acelockco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amtrosie View Post
    I have disagreed with you on many an occasion, and yet, no fireworks.
    Exactly, because by our discussions we always learrn from each other! I also respect the things you say and usually agree with you.

    Now about the regulators, I was just stating the "norm". Saying that most regulators are tuned in that method. Not saying you can't or shouldn't have it different, but that is the way most shops set up their octos.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasnake View Post
    1. Doing It Right implies everyone else is doing it by implication

    2. The 'religious zeal.' Like it or not, DIRinians have a reputation of being like any 'new convert' to a new religion..

    3. DIRinians brag that they can 'go anywhere in the world and dive with anyone else trained in DIR and know that their gear configuration and training will be the same.' Predictability--that's good.

    4. But, the downside of that is: you can go almost anywhere in the world and find that DIR is a numerical minority in diving [a minority within a minority] and you may not be able to dive with [I]anyone [I]in your group because they are NOT DIR. Is it not true that many DIRinians will refuse to dive with those not trained in DIR also?
    I'm late to this one and haven't caught up on the thread yet, but thought I'd reply anyway

    @1 : I think this is in part part of what causes the division I often observe; that if I'm doing it right, your not. Not a problem from my perspective (hypothetically), but from the person who is not DIR-minded, it comes across as offensive or arrogant. When in reality, I perceive it to mean something along the lines of "a better, more safer/disciplined way of diving, considering risks and taking decisive actions (or training) to avoid them." Most other divers won't get that (when they hear DIR).

    I sometimes have to catch myself from saying my "PADI" dive buddies. Why make a distinction? Sometimes there has to be, but most of the time there does not. That kind of attitude as well can be offensive.

    @2 : True. I think it is just excitement most of the time. The equipment, discipline, and intensity of training just works for some people and drastically changes their enjoyment of the sport. They can't help but be excited and want to share it with other people. But that does not make it right to attempt to force it or berate others for not.

    Some people do it because they like to be associated with a perceived elite group of divers. In the DIR world, they may be extermists and downright cocky about it. But those same people, were it not for DIR, may be akin to non-DIR rec divers I dive with that are constantly talking about diving like a NAVY SEAL or diving with them, or being one, or whatever. Some people just have a need to feel "above" everyone else.

    I think the vast majority of the cases (I've encountered) the individuals are just excited about it and come off strongly.

    @3 : There is a place for this one. A cave diver is not going to dive a cave with someone not trained for it, and a deep TRIMIX diver will not take a rec diver to 300 feet, either. When the goals of a dive calls for specific equipment or training, it is wise not to dive with someone not properly trained, equiped, or mentally fortified for such a dive.

    But for a peaceful rec dive off the shores or boat there shouldn't be a strong reason other than personal preference to dive with only like minded divers.

    Some people take it to an extreme.

    @4 : I think DIR divers can dive with anyone anywhere in the world, they just get comfortable with similarily trained divers that more or less can handle themselves and are relatively predictable because of similar training. I've dived with many non-DIR great divers. But I've had many boat dives spoiled because of buddies that are very inexperienced and weren't ready for the dives. I don't usually take insta-buds anymore on trips I pay for. But if I had to, I'd be fine with it. Once I know them, of course, I'll do so (just not strangers unless there's a reference point from which I might build a blind trust -- i.e. referrals, friend of friend, or frequent posters on some forum, etc.).

    I have many buddies that were open water trainined DIR from the get-go that need to adjust to non DIR divers when traveling abroad, or when renting standard gear equipment, but they usually fare just fine. It's funny hearing the stories of how the perceived the events, too. It's almost as comediac as some of the PADI/NAUI divers I know who meet their first DIR diver (the configuration, planning, and mental fortitude of it all can present a shock to some).

    But I encounter fewer new DIR divers these days (in SoCal) that have such attitudes. Most don't like to call it DIR anymore, but I've yet to hear a better work to identify the mindset, training, and equipment configuration.

    I call it "DICE" (Doing it Close Enough). Some have said "DIE" (Doing it Enthusiastically); others "DIMW" (Doing it My Way). Whetever the case, it isn't traditional recreational training and mindset, but it is recreational diving if it's not a technical dive. And by my org (UTD), its rec if it's within NDL and within depths imposed by the gas mixture (130 for air, though preferred 100; 100 for NITROX 32; 130 for Helitrix 25/25).

    Beyond those depths and NDLs its technical (including overhead). Other orgs might consider the Helitrox part technical.

    This seems to be changing somewhat, but then, I don't frequent other parts of the country or world so this is based on observation, not fact. I speak for myself not others and I'm not authoritive in this discussion. Take it as you will.

    Thanks,
    Shawn
    Last edited by shawnb; 06-22-2010 at 03:09 AM.

  6. #56
    SMN Publisher The Publisher's Avatar
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    I have seen a push as of late for a group to distance itself from the DIR name and the problems associated with it and to embrace the term Unified Team Diving.

    I have watched with a combination of bewildered amazement and utter amusement with Internet divers asking what is and what isn't DIR on every conceivable piece of gear.

    For sport once I created a thread somewhere else where I created a new Ultra-Right Wing Nazi DIR philosophy that sated we were the new real true DIR and how one needs to make sure the rubber compound for hoses and the internal braid wrap are all identical, all o-rings must have the same durometer ratings, all masks had to have the same strap thickness, all silicone o-ring lube had to have the same viscosity, etc, and I started on how standard DIR was no longer DIR.....it was funny, some even bought into my prank. I P.O.d the board guides for sure, but i was making political satire.

    In fairness to the DIR founders, I have seen a significant lack of the DIR gear frivolity nonsense so prevalent on scuba social communities from the DIR wannabees.

    Time will tell if Unified Team Diving will take hold although I won't hold my breath. (for fear of embolism/barotrauma, lol )
    SMN Publisher

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