Hi, could i please get some non biast opinions on the fifferernces between these two organizations? differences, advantages etc.
thanks
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Hi, could i please get some non biast opinions on the fifferernces between these two organizations? differences, advantages etc.
thanks
G'day and welcome aboard firstly.
Any agency is only as good as its instructors. PADI while being the biggest and most well known isnt going to do you any good if your instructor doesnt teach you what you should know. Same goes for SDI. They are probably one of the smaller ones but are connected with TDI so do have a bit of backup.
Anything you specifically need to know?
Matt
All of the certifing agencys are just about the same for their basic scuba class and even their advanced class. The way they teach varies a bit from agency to agency, but they all have to teach the same stuff.
The difference is more between different shops and more importantly different instructors. Your best bet is to try to meet with a few of the different insturctors to get a feel for whom you like the best.
Now in a final word, I am NAUI certified, and my wife is SSI certified. We were discussing getting going for our Dive Master certification so someday we may be able to work in diving. The more we thought about it, we decided we should go with PADI. Now, I perfer to go with a more technical based agency, but the bottom line is if we want a job in SCUBA, PADI is the biggest worldwide and will have the largest job availibity. I have never gone on vacation to see a ANDI or SSI or TDI dive shop, but I always see PADI.
Totally agree with the other posts in that a) open water standards are basically the same for most agencies and b) you should really consider the experience and reputation of the instructor as opposed to agency affiliation. As far as agencies go, PADI has a modular/ for-profit approach to teaching, which is why, (generally), you will get more out of class taught under a non-profit agency like NAUI or YMCA, which encourage their instructors to exceed standards as they see fit.
Kent
Instructor
NAUI/IANTD/CMAS
Instructors, instructors, instructors, If you get the feeling they are only in it for thier own ego or the almighty dollar (from what I hear the big money is far and few between) RUN! It is a lot like shopping for a mechanic. A good one is worth the extra $$ or the few extra miles you may have to drive. If you find an instructor who makes you feel comfortable they are worth thier weight in gold. Agencies ABC is not much diffrent from Agencies XYZ. PADI is the big name for the industry but I have never heard of anyone being denied the opportunity to dive because they hold a non-PADI card...
Totally agree with the other posts in that a) open water standards are basically the same for most agencies and b) you should really consider the experience and reputation of the instructor as opposed to agency affiliation. As far as agencies go, PADI has a modular/ for-profit approach to teaching, which is why, (generally), you will get more out of class taught under a non-profit agency like NAUI or YMCA, which encourage their instructors to exceed standards as they see fit.
Kent
Instructor
NAUI/IANTD/CMAS
They won't prevent you from getting the job, the problem is you will have to be certified in whatever they are teaching. For example a NAUI instructor can teach NAUI, but he can not teach PADI classes. The basic and Advanced classes are the only ones that are universally accepted, all of the other classes seem to be agency specific.
I would perfer to learn from another agency!!! Believe me!!, but the fact that PADI is everywhere I have ever thought of going is huge!
Now as far as SCUBA instructors doing " it for thier own ego or the almighty dollar ", well what other reason is there? The reason anyone teaches is their ego. They feel like they know something and get a good feeling from sharing with others. Now as far as money is concerned, we all know that most professional divers (not commercial divers) are not making much money unless they happen to be really lucky. So that idea is down the drain, but if there was money to be made, they deserve it. A lot of hard work goes into becoming a dive instructor and should be properly compensated.
I can name two within 20 miles of each other that it is a total EGO trip for them. This doesn't mean that they are not good instructors, but they tend to draw other Ego geeks as well. I know that thier students who can't handle the ego trip either stop diving altogether or seek out another shop. So on this point I will respectfully disagree, and add that maybe I didn't communicate my point properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by acelockco
As far as money goes, yes alot goes in to becoming an instructor and thay deserve to be compensated for it. I have several friends who are instructors. I have seen the things they need to do and not to mention insurances they need to carry.(Well at least in NY)
But I think we got away from the thread a bit.
If the instructor fits your personality and you are comfortable with them, then I say be damned the agencies name.
well I thought all NY'ers had BIG EGO'S:)
Now that was funny!
Here is an example of an instructor on a HUGE ego trip, and why finding a good instructor is more important than the certifying agency.
We were on a dive trip to Key Largo last february when this instructor from the Miami area brought a group of about 10 students down for their open water cert dives. We were on the same boat, and when he introduced himself the first thing he did was brag that he certifies more students than anyone else in his area. He spent the next two days bragging about his diving adventures, berating his students in every way possible, and openly ogling his two female students. His teaching style was to use put-downs, insults, and negative comments. A real boot camp style. Oh, and his divers? Let's just say it amazing there's any reef left after they got done standing on it, and rototilling it to pieces. If the guy had paid a little more attention to teaching his students, and a little less toward nuturing his ego trip, they would be better divers.
Mountain Dog
That is unfortunate and that is most likely one of the big reasons PADI and most other agencies are going to the video and computer style training with a limited amount of actual instructor time. I guess they are trying to eliminate things like that.
For the record, the guy in my story was not PADI...and I'll just leave it at that.
I'm not sure that reducing the instructor role a good thing, though. All I have to draw on here is my own experience, and I have to say that my instructors have been awesome. We got our OW training in Aruba, AOW and Nitrox in Key Largo, and a number of specialties since then from my LDS.
For OW, we were in Aruba in the off season, and LadyDog and I happened to be the only students for four instructors at the dive shop that week. They sent us the OW manual two weeks before we went down. They did some discover dives and they had a fair number of certified divers on the boats, but we were the only OW students. We were drilled and grilled at every turn. Our pool days were full day sessions. Our nights were spent with our faces in the books. For our final checkout dive our instructor turned off the gas valve without us knowing, then threw our rigs as far off the boat as he could into a pretty choppy sea. As they floated away on the current he looked at us and said, "go get 'em, put 'em on, swim back to the boat and I'll hand down your weight belts. Then we'll go diving." It was an interesting lesson in problem solving.
For AOW again, we were the only two students assigned to our instructor. We had a young, but conscientious instructor who was very thorough. We did 10 dives on that trip, and although we passed the requirements for AOW and Nitrox somewhere around dive 6, he dove with us for all 10 tanks and continued to critique and work with us the whole time.
I'm sure we wouldn't have gotten that type of personal treatment if it had been busy, but I'm happy we did. Our instructors really cared, and I hope it shows in our diving.
Maybe this story suggests that one thing to look for in deciding on an instructor, is class size. If an instructor is dealing with ten students, each one is only going to get a tenth of his attention.
Mountain Dog
Getting back to the topic of the original post....
While it's true that the basic standards for agencies that adhere to the RSTC guidelines are pretty similar, there are differences. As noted by BK Diver, some agencies encourage instructors to go beyond the curriculum while others prohibit it. There are pros and cons to both approaches, but that is really a topic for a different thread, so I'll leave it there. The main thing is to make sure *you* are comfortable with your instructor and neither intimidated in any way or uncertain of his/her capacity to do a good job with you (you are allowed bias here, even if it's not very PC--you may prefer a male/female/teenage/middle-aged/senior instructor with a boot-camp/nurturing approach or anything in between!).
In addition, there are differences in the degree to which agencies embrace technology. Both PADI and SDI now have e-learning options that allow students to do most of the academic work online before meeting an instructor face-to-face for the practical in-water sessions. SDI was actually the leader in this approach, and PADI very recently jumped on what seems likely to become a bandwagon. SDI also *requires* students to train using a dive computer to plan dives whereas PADI still requires students to learn to use tables for dive planning. I expect dive tables will eventually become redundant (though a lot of us like redundancy when it's our lives in the balance), but it may take a while due to the economics of dive centers needing to supply the equipment. Already, most tech divers do all of their planning using computer software rather than using the cumbersome tables to work out those complex dive plans, so why not recreational diving. (After all, what else is a dive computer but dedicated software in a tiny bit of hardware?)
Hope that helps!
That is certainly part of it. Another part is that scuba instructors are both teachers and coaches. Most are accomplished divers and pretty good coaches. Where a lot of them fall down is in the classroom portion of the course. Many (perhaps most) don't really know how to teach in a classroom setting and simply read powerpoint slides aloud or repeat information students are having trouble with verbatim from the manual rather than going at it from a different direction so that it makes more sense to the student. Really good instructors can bridge that chasm, but significant numbers cannot. I know that a lot of students and instructors alike dread the classroom parts of the certification courses, meaning that many students don't get much from them anyway and may actually learn better in another way. I have certifications from three different agencies in a very large number of courses, and all but one of my instructors was an uninspiring classroom teacher, and yet great role models and coaches in the water.Quote:
Originally Posted by acelockco
I don't care who you are!!!
- Ha just relized this post was a bit more than 5 hrs to late.. (editted 7/15/07)
Now thats funny!!
[QUOTE=Quero;5141]That is certainly part of it. Another part is that scuba instructors are both teachers and coaches. Most are accomplished divers and pretty good coaches. Where a lot of them fall down is in the classroom portion of the course. Many (perhaps most) don't really know how to teach in a classroom setting and simply read powerpoint slides aloud or repeat information students are having trouble with verbatim from the manual rather than going at it from a different direction so that it makes more sense to the student. Really good instructors can bridge that chasm, but significant numbers cannot. I know that a lot of students and instructors alike dread the classroom parts of the certification courses, meaning that many students don't get much from them anyway and may actually learn better in another way. I have certifications from three different agencies in a very large number of courses, QUOTE]
I could not agree more!!!! I had a partner who used his education background as a selling point for his classes. He was one of the better instructors I have observed. This very point was discussed amongst my dive team this last weekend. It was our collective agreement on this very item, that is dictating our choice of instructor for future training in the various disciplines of diving that we are pursuing as a team.
Now back to the original post. I have obtained certifications from 9 seperate organizations and the determining factor now, is what diving am I trying to do and what organization provides the best curriculum for that course of study. Now, I seek out the best instructor, period! That may mean traveling on my part. When it comes to my life, a few miles (kilometers) are an insignificant factor in my training requirerments.
How do I chose my Instructor/Agency? That is how!
Thanks to all who have added input on my question! It seems like both agencies are as good as their instructors. Another question I've got came from what "acelockco" said about dive shops. if I was vacationing and I was not padi certified but sdi or tdi would the dive shop not recognize my certification. What is/are the main purpose of the dive shops? Would I not be allowed to Dive certain places because of my certification?
Quote:
Originally Posted by acelockco
No, they are all universally accepted anywhere. The only difference is when getting a job. Generally you have to be certified by the agency that the business is affiliated with. There are times that some shops like to have the additional ability to certify divers with other agencies, but that is not usually the case.
Hi
I am also a beginner. So it doesn't really matter which agency we choose unless we wish to go for job..Right?
And what if we want to advance the scuba courses? Like if I have the basic open water course from SDI and wish to got for the advanced one through PADI..? Wouldn't there be any restriction and/or extra charges for sure?
Thank You.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arbit_fire
No worries, one nice thing is when you are advancing from your basic course to Advanced, you can change agencies. That is nice as you are not locked into one agency, plus you can get an opportunity to check out the differences 1st hand. No restrictions or extra charges either!
And even if you do decide to go for a SCUBA job, your first few classes still don't matter. So go with whatever shop, agency, or instructor you feel most comfortable with as that is the top priority....well second to getting certified! You are in for an amazing adventure, glad to see another diver in the making!
acelockco, Thanks for answering this I had the same question. I am taking my SDI Open Water Class Saturday and Sunday.
Any agency is only as good as its instructors, almost all agency have same training program
When I first sat down in an SDI get to know us seminar a few years ago at DEMA, I thought WOW! This is the way PADI should be. The courses are similar and they do allow the instructor to teach beyond the basics of the course, as needed/deemed.
Major difference, from an instructor perspective is SDI supports the instructor where the Professional Association of Dive Instructor show more support for the IRRAs, hense the name does not match the foundation of their bias.
As mentioned below, it really is the instructor that makes the course a good course, safe course, educational or a great course. You can tell by the attitude. If you wind up with an instructor with the I'm greater than god or I love me attitude, etc. be careful.
As for the certification card, there are tons of certifying agencies around the world. Usually showing a cert is enough to get equipment or on a boat, but it is up to the operator.
How do you tell? Ask to take a discover scuba and see how the trainer is. It keeps your expenses low while scoping out the potential. Of course if you are or want to train in Florida, I will be happy to assist. With over 34 years of diving under my weight belt and experiencing the oops personally, have the experience and knowledge to be the worlds greatest instructor!!! Lol :-) Good luck on your endeavor.
My local dive instructor (SDI/TDI) has nothing good to say about PADI. I'm not sure that it's not pure bias but I don't have any way to judge. His take is that PADI courses are designed to make money and not to teach real necessary skills. He says that PADI courses are superficial and have some downright wrong ideation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddy-h2O
I have some doubts. This same guy says PST steel tanks are crap (I got used PST 72 and 65 LP tanks, viturally brand new with new high end valves for $100 for both as opposed to buying a single 80 Worthington from him for $350). He doesn't like Mares computers (because he isn't a dealer??? I really don't know).
I have to admit that when I got my kit for OW with them (after 55+ years of snorkeling experience) they did offer me options (including the most economical). My choices went to what I really wanted and thought was best with no pressure from them.
As far as my OW instruction goes - I thought they were very concious of each individual's progress and were kind enough to suggest additional sessions at no cost. I have no reservation with SDI courses. I've gone through Nav, Deep, Night and Solo. I plan to do Search & Recover soon. The courses are seriously good as long as you have a conciencious instructor.
Each agency has its own curriculum, but the basics of diving are just that, and everything else is just marketing! All any card is is a release of liability for the person providing the air, there is no law against diving without a C-Card, only liability for the air provider! Like all education instructors or teachers are people and all different in one way or another ;) The instructor can make the difference in weather a diver will be one for a long time or just another passing fad! PADI is an easy target for many, but you can get a great PADI instructor and a bad SDI one, so is the real question about the program? If so as long as basic principles of safety are covered it becomes personal involvement and your own quest for learning and desire to take your training seriously and to the next level and that can be done regardless of the agency!
The rewards of being a good diver are wondrous and fulfilling and often a door to a whole new world!
I'm certified with SDI. Since I have never taken a PADI course
Great agency, but as I said as long as you get the basics to keep you safe, it is about Diving and that is what makes good divers! No matter the card, dive as often as possible and you will be a better diver and enjoy the experience much greater!