Which CCR???

Guys,

I would like to hear everyone's opinion of the various CCR units out there. I would be mainly using in for video work, not super deep say 60m max unless I'm doing something special.

Key features to me would be:
Reasonable low maintenance (well compared to other units I know there is a fair amount of work involved)
Size
Safety Record (Pretty high on my list!!)
Fairly easy to get serviced etc

My thoughts are Evo (smaller), Inspiration (bit big but been around hence hopefully ironed out issues) or Kiss (simple... but maybe to simple if I'm focussing on video on the unit?)

Cheers

Jon

John,

For video work, the Evo over the Inspo is the way to go. Smaller, lighter, travels better, etc.

ISC makes a mini-Meg that is well regarded.

For me, because Cis-Lunar stopped 15 years ago due to venture capital issues, I chose the Inspiration over everything else because it seemed to be the largest company. I wanted some stability in the company whose product I chose. It turned out to be the right choice. They did not have the Evo when I bought my Inspo. Get the extended range Evo, which uses an Inspo scrubber. Get the temp stick, as I get 6-7 hours out of the scrubber now. Saves on Sofnolime and pays for itself.

Some guys swear by the KISS system, but really, between white balancing, macro, subjects, framing, manual controls, etc while shooting video, do you REALLY want to add additional task loading, especially having to manually control Po2 in a system with no warnings of ANY kind other than an additional visual display that has to be looked at every minute or you will go unconscious and die?

But with the partnering of DP Scandinavia buying Poseidon, then partner with Bill Stone of Cis-Lunar, I would give some LONG hard looks at that unit.

I have interviewed Dr. Stone twice now, HD videos of which are in the Cis-Lunar section here, and I am impressed. The 20 year old Cis-Lunar Mark VP still to this date has a combination of features not since duplicated, but now DP threw a truckload of systems engineers over to Stone and the new Mark 6 Discovery is revolutionary, using just two sensors.

The compact Sentinel is great for someone with more $ than God, and it is certainly a well regarded unit.

There are lots of other units, like the Revo, the Optima, etc, but for what we do, we really need a small, light, automated unit, and at $6500, the mark 6 will leave you with enough $ to put towards that Scarlet 5k videocam and housing ;)

Hopefully some other CCR types will chime in here and add their opinions.

Thanks, I do some more research. Yeah the dieing factor isn't high on my list of '09 ;)

I have used the dolphin and ray units (the Ray is a piece of junk), how much of a jump is it using an Evo? Is there heaps of maintenance, time rigging up etc?

What about a rEvo? It is very simple and requires very little maintainance. It can be configured in any way that you wish (manual, hybrid, or electronic controlled)

I start my crossover course on it tomorrow.

The rEvo certainly has the fastest scrubber change time I have ever seen!

I have heard no complaints at all on that unit.

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Originally Posted by The Publisher

The compact Sentinel is great for someone with more $ than God, and it is certainly a well regarded unit.

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Why do you say that? It's priced the same as an Inspo/Evo from AP in the UK & includes features such as ADV/BOV/Deco software which are optional extras on AP models.

Good point JPT, I may have been thinking of the Boris when it comes to pricing.

I hear that the Sentinel is available in various model levels.

The new Cis-Lunar Mark 6 looks interesting from a travel standpoint.

Any of you guys dived with Apocalypse? Looks really robust and it's pretty god value?


Jon

Jon, I have played with that unit on land and interviewed Alex Deas several times....some really interesting features. I don't believe it is in production yet though. The DSV/BOV or whatever everyone seems to be calling them these days is really trick.

Alot of Inspiration and Evo divers are really turned off about Deas being a hired witness in a lawsuit against Ambient Pressure, a substantial lawsuit where Ambient Pressure really creamed the plaintiffs lawyers and the trial court rejected the plantiffs claims.

I know of a pro videographer that uses a Sport Kiss. he travels lots round the world with it and he thinks its great, i could give you his contact info if you would like to discuss this with him.
the Sport KISS is lightweight, simple and easy to maintain, you can get parts for it almost anywhere.
IMHO the best way to keep your CCR mantained is to learn how to maintain it yourself, that usually comes with the course i believe.
trust no one but yourself when it comes to maintaining you CCR rig.
The KISS can be altered and imroved to your liking and comfort.

on the otherhand, I know 2 photovidiographers that use the inspiration, they dont look like the inspiration anymore cause of all the improvements and tweeks they have had on them but, basic inspiration non the less.
they dive to great depths, we're talking about up to 120 metres and deeper.
they are very satisfied.
Could also give you their contact info if you would like to hear opinions.

Also, the Is the Meg and Mini-Meg, If you are diving shallow, I would concider the Meg-COPIS. look the COPIS up, from what I know about it and have seen it, it would be Ideal for your diving. When Leon Scamahorn (ISC owner, Instructor and CEO) was over teaching a Meg course where I work, he also shoed us the Copis.
no THAT is a CCR i would buy.


good luck.

Thanks for the info guys.... I've actually heard good things about the Sport KISS.

I'll keep you posted when I finally make a decision....

Hi Dave,

I can confirm a few professional underwater, photographers and videographers use KISS (both Sport and Classic) rebreathers for their work. I should know, I am one of them, along with Norbert Wu, Curt Bowen, Alan Studley, Doug Ebersole and Tim Taylor.

Flying manual (KISS) CCR’s is very easy. I started off with an Inspiration Classic only to switch to a Sport KISS few years back.

If you are not of the notion that “I am too busy to properly monitor my displays and dive computer” then you should be fine with it.

As a underwater photographer (see www.waltstearns.com and www.underwaterjournal.com) diving a KISS has almost become second nature for me too balance between shooting pictures reading the information through the camera’s viewfinder and maintaining my desired set point at 1.2. Even in task loading situations, like shooting a bag midway up from the bottom on a 140 dive in a live boat situation while judging your camera, monitor depth/time/PO2 with 10 to 15 min. of deco to full fill) is no big deal.

Many MCCR users attribute regular monitoring and adjustment through manual injection builds safer habits, reducing the likelihood that a malfunction would go unnoticed. Furthermore, in addition to offer the user a better chance at remedying a gas management issue underwater, they (KISS) are simple to repair in the field, and reducing the prospects of missing a dive or whole dive trip. There are few components on a KISS that cannot be taken apart with a small cresset wrench and Philips screwdriver.

In addition to the original KISS triple display and VR pendant, KISS has decided to offer both Classic and Sport without any displays what so ever.

Now some of you, knowing displays for PO2 monitoring is a critical component to all rebreathers are going to say what, are you nuts! Well, Kim has just spent plenty of time with her lawyer to make this happen, and to ensure that divers understand the risk. Those that want this option will have to sign an additional waiver. Also this option will only be avialable through the dealers.

What's great about this is that divers can choose from a variety of options such as computers like the VRx, Shearwater Pursuit and Liquidvision X1, as well as more simple triple displays like Subsea and Sartek which are capable of monitor three O2 cells, thus permitting an individual making the investment in a Classic or Sport not be totally beholden to those devices offered by KISS.

What this all means is that a diver wanting to get into a KISS, can have the dealer order it without any displays, while at the same time buy the displays and/or computer of their choice from that dealer. In theory, what you opt to plumb into it is entirely up to you. Of course, the rebreather must be checked to see everything is in working order, particularly in the matter that computer/displays plugged in are reading the three O2 cells properly. A prudent behavior that should practiced by all rebreather divers.

The retail price for the Classic KISS, with NO display system (plate and wires note included), runs $5,500 Canadian, or $4,670.75 U.S. dollars at todays exchange rate. Or for $5,950 Canadian, 5,052.90 U.S. will include the kidney plate with a Fischer connection.

The same goes for the Sport KISS, (minus both the wires and three hose connector) retailing for $4,375 Canadian, $3,715.37 U.S., with NO display system, or for additional $475 Canadian, $403.39 U.S. the unit will come with Fischer connector in O2 sensor housing.

I hear from lots of Kiss owners they are really pleased with their units. I personally am into macro videography so I am always intently looking for tiny critters, and when I spot one, I get into a total concentration zone...maybe that is good for videography, bad for rebreather monitoring, lol.

It is the Vision electronic's HUD always in front of my left eyeball that eliminates me from having to constantly check my po2, let alone periodically inject 02. I have no idea how often you Kiss owners actually have to inject 02 or visually monitor their p02 readout other than the standard on the books 60 seconds of the Classic Inspo dangling pendants, so perhaps some can chime in.

I was never a fan of their triple LCD readout pendant, but as Walt alluded to, now that I have seen for several years an interface with VR3's and other integrated p02 computers, that is no longer an issue.

I suspect that there is a certain level of familiarity and thus comfort with doing video on the unit you learned and were trained on, sort of like the Ford v Chevy argument.

I would prefer an HUD though with a small TV style screen like Pete Readey had on some of his Prism units. Far more info available, as this stuff about memorizing what all the different LED codes mean on the Vision HUD is for the birds.

By the way, I would not be doing video at 150' on any unit with a 3 liter or less onboard diluent cylinder at 150' without a slung bailout bottle.


Ultimately, features aside, the best rebreather for anyone is the one they feel the most comfortable with.

Very good point there. As for HUD options, they can be added to any system. Currently I use Shearwater Pursuit with one of the original KISS displays (as a back up to the Shearwater) for PPO2 monitoring. If/when I choose too, I can easily jack in a Shearwater's HUD system with no difficulty at all.

As to the question how often us Kiss owners actually have to inject 02 or visually monitor your p02 readout.

Visually monitoring our p02 is the same as with any other rebreather out there. What's the mantra "know your PO2 at all times or you will die." Yeah, sounds harsh, but it keeps you thinking.

As for how often us Kiss owners actually have to inject 02 into the system, that really depends on depth and activity level.

The KISS works by bleeding O2 into the system at a rate of .06 lpm (just below the average human being's metabolic rate), with a manual bypass button punch a quick or long shot of O2 back into the loop.

I can't speak for everyone (KISS Divers) here, but not very often as I have somewhat low SAC rate (close to .5) and can maintain very efficient breathing rate, even when task loaded. Dive the system as long as have, tapping the button is as automatic and second nature as stroking your fingers through your hair or scratching your chin.

When I doing something like shooting macro, or simply laying in wait for something, to maintain a setpoint of 1.2, the drop is so low, at a depth of 40 - 50 feet the flow rate is dam near equal to my metabolic rate. At 60 feet and deeper, it actually moves in the other direction, ticking up faster with each increase in depth, requiring I have pay very close attention to not letting it get too high.

Reasonable low maintenance (well compared to other units I know there is a fair amount of work involved)
Size
Safety Record (Pretty high on my list!!)
Fairly easy to get serviced etc
？？

What I learned at DEMA, the Sentinel is the best bang for the buck.
With training, around $12K.
http://www.technologyindepth.com/sentinel.html

L

They say they have realtime C02 sensing too.

I could be wrong.....but I believe the Apoc is the only one with CO2 sensor....and it's still vapour-ware at this stage, since there are no deliveries yet.

Chrispy

I interviewed the Closed Circuit Research guys and they definitely say they have real time C02 sensing on the Sentinel.

I have seen the Apoc's separate C02 module...but yes, I too haven't seen it out there.

For me the choice was simple, the APD factory is a 30 minute drive from my house.

I have dived the Pelagian and found that to be very easy, compact and light for travelling.

New APD cells out soon as well, 4 year life span but twice the price of teledynes.

CO2 monitoring, if you don't try to out-run your scrubber you don't need one.

4 year life span at twice the price? That is a good deal!

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Originally Posted by The Publisher

4 year life span at twice the price? That is a good deal!

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Especially when the Teledynes run out. They are going to be made by APD, I've been trying to get some samples without any luck.