I'm just wondering how often everyone gets their reg serviced. I know it should be done every year but I've even heard of twice a year. Also have hear just every 100 dives or so.
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I'm just wondering how often everyone gets their reg serviced. I know it should be done every year but I've even heard of twice a year. Also have hear just every 100 dives or so.
The annual requirement for regs (and other gear) was called out for two reasons: 1. It was recognized that there was a "down" time for most every one's diving, so the rationale was to service the gear when it was not in use or needed. 2. The other consideration, and the REAL reason, is the actual usage of the gear.
It is a lesser known fact that gear that is not used frequently is in more need of "servicing" than gear used quite frequently. The reason, The "seats" (fine edged surfaces that provide the positive seal against unwanted pressure changes) get very worn, if not exercised on a regular basis. That isn't to say that these seats do not get worn with use, just that they wear less. It is the accepted thinking of the day to calculate average use of a regulator at 100 times per Annual cycle. I can hear it already; "I dive way more than that, what should I do!" Hence the average use of the regulator. The regulator can go many more cycles than that without an incident, but in today's litigious society, an annual requirement is a safe time frame.
The one's that service their gear more often, could very well need to have the service done, due to the extreme use of the regulator. Others may do this to ensure the continued safe functioning of the regulator, and their peace of mind. Diving conditions may dictate the increased attention to one's gear. PSD divers come to mind, and those diving in contaminated water, as well. Another reason may be that the diver is acutely aware of the performance drop in the regulator, so wants servicing performed more frequently.
What one must realize is that annual regulator service is PRENTITIVE MAINTENANCE. This should always be the mentality when using and maintaining life support systems. You do not want to wait until it breaks to fix it, you want to be proactive and anticipate your maintenance needs!
I speak from a very experienced background, having worked on scuba regulators for over 15 years, but having maintained aircraft for 29 years. I do not mess with life support systems. My dive team has me maintain their gear. Who better? After all, their gear is my back-up.
I just wanted to toss in my two cents:
From what I have seen, the majority of regulator failures happen right after the regulator has been serviced!
So my answer to your original question, is when it fails. When my regulator starts to act up, that is when I get it serviced. I usually get two years out of it before it starts to get "leaky" or perform less than perfect. I am sure I could even get more time out of it.
Thanks for your input.
I'd have to go with the preventive maintenance plan with regulators. You wait until your tv breaks before you go get it fixed, but you don't want your reg failing on a dive to be the motivator for getting service work done. If you maintain your gear you can have the hope that it NEVER fails on you and always works as expected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acelockco
Ace,
Life support equipment is not automotive equipment. It will not fail at an opportune time!! The problem with letting something go till it "acts up" underwater, your options are SEVERELY LIMITED!! Why limit options, when prior to diving, one has all the options? You have the additional concern of diving with your wife, and I can not think of a more tragic event than to be the witness to loved ones demise. And to think that maybe you could have done something to PREVENT IT? That is not something I want to contemplate.
If your reg fails right after servicing. It isn't the service, but rather the monkey who is messing with it. Find a tech. who does know what they are doing. Spends some scuba bucks on a GOOD service. After all it is only the thing keeping you alive!
How important is that?
Only you can be the judge.
Well, let me start by saying that Atomic and Dive Rite regulators have a factory service interval of TWO years, not one. I know that the Dive Rite regulator is identical to another brand regulator (because they make it), but the other regulator's service interval is only one year. What gives? What I believe is business covering their a$$es. I know the regulators are good for two years.
Now as far as a regulator failing and it causing a problem. Well honestly the only problem is the dive will have to be aborted. Do you really think a failed regulator is going to kill either of us?? Come on, we dive as a good buddy team and also dive completely redundant air sources.
I do have a question for you though, about the "monkey" working on my regulator. I only know of one really qualified regulator technician, and he is located in Chicago (far away from Reading, PA). So my question is how do you find a good regulator tech, rather than a "monkey". My second part of that question is how do I become a regulator tech?
You see, I know from my many years as a locksmith that if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself. I am always fixing other "professinals" mistakes. For example last night I was called out after 3:00am because the front door of a new Starbucks store would not lock. I found that the person that installed the locks, for some reason decided that some of the parts were not important enough to install. SO, I had to fix his mistake to make things right.
Bottom line, I would service my regulators 2 times a year if I could do it myself and I would love to go that route.
If you serviced your regs every two years and that worked for you, at least that would be a regular preventative maintenance program. I can agree with that. In many cases that would work.
As far as the reg failing and you have to abort the dive, in some cases that would work. But why subject yourself and your buddy to that unnecessary stress? Could I survive jumping off my roof? Probably. Why risk it though?
I know what you are talking about when it comes to finding reliable techs. If bad techs are monkeys, than I live in the jungle around here! Probably 7 or 8 years ago I realized the only person around here I could trust to work on my gear was me. I happened to be working at a shop at the time and managed to get in on my first reg repair course. Over the years through connections I have gotten a few more. Getting ahold of the service literature can be difficult too, but it can be found. Even harder is getting rebuild kits! Wow, if someone can find me a source for those I'd be grateful! There are some good books out there on servicing regulators you can get your hands on. That Vance Harlow guy writes a good one from www.airspeedpress.com. If you are comfortable working with tools it is well within your grasp.
I have seen the manual you are talking about and was thinking of ordering it, as it is fairly reasonable in price especially for the info it promises to have.
As far as service kits, where do the dive shops get them from? If I am going to invest money for training, manuals and tool to do the job right, then I am going to go the final steps and do it for a side business. So I would think once I became a business, my supplier would be able to get them for me. My friends just opened up a small "dive shop" at their quarry, I will talk to them about their supplier.
Anyway, what I was wondering is there any certifing agency or any regulations on who can call themselves regulator tech's?
[QUOTE=acelockco;8568]
What gives? What I believe is business covering their a$$es. I know the regulators are good for two years.
Now as far as a regulator failing and it causing a problem. Well honestly the only problem is the dive will have to be aborted. Do you really think a failed regulator is going to kill either of us?? Come on, we dive as a good buddy team and also dive completely redundant air sources.
I do have a question for you though, about the "monkey" working on my regulator. I only know of one really qualified regulator technician, and he is located in Chicago (far away from Reading, PA). So my question is how do you find a good regulator tech, rather than a "monkey". My second part of that question is how do I become a regulator tech?
QUOTE]
First and fore-most: Yes, these manufacturers are activating the CYA button. Each dive manf. does take these regs and make "small" personal alterations to make it "theirs". In that process, they MAY do something to make them feel safe in extending the service requirement. Remember what I said earlier, this is more about lack of (or miss) use than excessive use. The abuse these regulators take is amazing.
Second: Do I think a regulator can kill me? ABSOLUTELY!!!!! There are a multitude of situations that could very well prevent me from taking my next breath. Yes, I am redundant, as is my team, but I will not jeopardize my team with this attitude. Especially for something so easily taken care of. I will not allow my dive planning and preparation to incorporate the "I hope my regulator works" mentality! What if the 1rst stage fails? That affects two second stages. Can you compensate for that? More importantly, should you carry a completely independent back up system, can it get you from the farthest point of your dive (plan) all the way back to the surface? Hint: a 30 cu.ft. bottle will not do that!
Now the last point: Your point is well taken, and unfortunately you are seeing the effects of dive shops scrapping to pay for all the things that divers demand, all with a shrinking dollar. It is the rare shop that has a dedicated individual repairing/servicing gear, that has had the knowledge and theory training that makes up one of the components of a good service tech. Some kid that comes in for a few hours a week, and is paid pennies or compensated with dive gear, does not constitute a dedicated repair guy.
****PULPIT TIME: This is one of many ways where the Internet has adversely affected the LDS. They have less revenue for "non-essential" stuff. We are sooooo quick to demand cheaper and cheaper products, regardless of origin. We need to be more cognizant of the effect of keeping the dollars closer to home!******** I am done!
The best guys have:
1. Training, on life support systems, usually in other disciplines (aircraft maintenance, in my case) that serves them well in the repair room.
2. They must be mechanically inclined. They are the ones who want to know how something works and take it apart to figure it out.
3. These guys have got to have the desire "to do it right", regardless how much time is required to fix it right. I used to take certain regs that challenged me, and dive them, to verify proper operation.
4. Look for guys that have the various service classes in the products they are working on.
5. Look to see how their repair room is organized. Are tools strewn all over the place? Are there tools? Organization is critical.
6.What certificates are on display for the products that he/she services.
7. Is the repair room clean?
8. Where are the service manuals? Does the tech have them readily available to reference?
9. Ask to see the service records. A good tech will be able to show what they are working on and seeing.
10. Ask a question about a certain product, and you can't get them to shut up! They carry on about the pro's and con's of the various products.
11. Look for experience! Some one who has seen a lot of regs (and such), so is able to draw on past experience for trouble shooting and servicing.
These are things that set a good tech apart from the hacks. A lot of it goes to the mentality of the technician.
Wow, you really contradict yourself there dude. You said you would not take a chance on using "life support" equipment that was not maintained. You said it was not worth the risk.
But then later you talk about regulators that you worked on where you were not sure, so you decided to dive with them to make sure. Well, that sounds even more foolish than diving with undermaintained gear.
You did not answer my question, I was not looking for your opinion or assumptions. Again, here is my question:
"Anyway, what I was wondering is there any certifing agency or any regulations on who can call themselves regulator tech's?"
Ace I don't know but you can find service manuals on ebay:
http://search.ebay.com/search/search...p=2%26fsoo%3D2
I don't know where to find the tools or where to take a class. Since some people on here service their own equipment, are you guy cert. or just self/peer taught?
Certification for servicing is done by the reg manufacturer, you become an authorised service technician by attending one of their courses. Getting on to a course is difficult, the manufacturers understandably want to control quality and also want to protect the business of the authorised resellers, i.e. they don't want joe blogg on the street doing his/her own servicing in a back shed, offering it out as a favour to any mate that buys them a drink.Quote:
Originally Posted by acelockco
Getting hold of a service kit is even harder, these will only be sent to an authorised reseller, they in turn are not allowed to sell them on to the general public.
That's the official way anyway
With regards to the debate on when to get a regulator serviced, I get my regs serviced at least once a year, more if they have been taking a hammering (e.g a lot of tech/deep diving or loads of pool work/teaching), definitely if they have been sat unused for a while.
Ace's point is quite valied, technicians do make mistakes. However the solution to me is quite simple, first thing I do with a set of regs that have just been serviced is a shallow check out dive to make sure they are OK. If the technician has made a mistake, it's going to show up pretty quickly, the service centre will quickly hear about it as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acelockco
No I did not! I said to verify proper operation! When a reg was brought in with a specific complaint. After tear down and rebuild, I would dive that reg(on a separate tank) to make sure that the complaint was rectified. For it is only in the water that you are 100% sure of the fix.
To answer the other question, No there is no organization to certify technicians. The only "oversight" is through the controls the individual manufacturers have in place.
Well, if there is no official certification or governing agency, the I am in business. I am going to have to speak with my friends in regards to getting parts, but I know that won't be the problem. Tools are also pretty easy to get.
I am not saying I am ready to work on regulators yet, but the parts and certification issue are taken care of. In fact, maybe I can just become affiliated with my friends dive shop as I know they don't have anyone to service their gear yet.
As far as learning how to make repairs, I am going to have to start reading. Maybe by going through my friends dive shop, I can get into the manufacturers classes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amtrosie
You mean like my completely redundant system? You know additional cylinder and regulator.
You know, ACE, I did this 25 years ago when I started teaching; maybe protocol has changed since.Quote:
Originally Posted by acelockco
I taught at Laguna Sea Sports, and asked the shop manager, and the owner, respectively, for the contact info for the different manufacturers I was interested in (Scubapro, Oceanic, and Sherwood,) I got course info, took a half to 1 day seminar each, and was certified as a repair tech.
I was able to order rebuild kits through the shop as needed.
Pretty simple, really.
Let me know how it is for you.
ASW
Cool,
I will let you know how it all pans out. I just love fixing things (that's why I am a locksmith), so this will really be perfect for me. Gives me something to do in the evenings during the off season. I already service all of my other gear, just not the regs.
Now I am going to have to look into some general liability insurance, but that is not really a big deal. I already have one policy for the lock business.
I made some of the tools myself and had a machinist friend make some stuff up for me too. Replacement parts can be found from third party sources in some cases, like o-rings for example. But there are certainly little dodads it would be nice to have access to what an authorized dealer can get. Ace if you are used to working on locks I would think reg repair would be right up your alley. The liability factor is what holds me back from doing work on other's regs.
Well you ALWAYS want to have liablility insurance when you are working on anything, especially something like regulators for obvious reasons. It is not really a big deal, and is not very expensive in the big picture.
I have general liability insurance for my business for $1,000,000 and it costs me under $800/year. When I first started out I had a $300,000 policy and it was only $280/year.
If you have a warantee, the warantee usually requires an annual check up, or the warantee is voided.
If you feel 100 dives is a good time period between check-ups, DIVE MORE!!!
That is a good point for sure.
No warranty left on any of my regulators, they are too old. Actually thinking about getting a new one (Posideon).
Personally I feel 100 dives a year is quite a good amout especially for recreational diving, obviously not for commericial. Looking into it, the $40 dollars or so you pay for labor isn't all that much. If you can find the tools, parts especially it's worth it but it seems like a lot of work to go to unless you are planning on going into business. Ace I'm sure you know but your arent' going to be able to find any sort of insurance unless you are qualified.
The only real impetus besides being in business is so that you can be sure your kit is looked after properly.
I'm also interested in looking after my own regs as my new LDS just can't get it right. They've adjusted the 2nd stage so that at even the smallest suggestion from me, it tries to choke me by punching air down my throat. I've brought it back repeatedly but they just don't "get it", and reset it to choke me again. I've had to dive with my tongue out as a shield from that air. The next nearest LDS (that doesn't look like scuba is an afterthought) is 2 hrs away in Rhode Island or 2 hrs to New York. Any suggestions as to where I can look for training and materials?
Ebay they have parts and manuals. Have you tried shipping it out?
Yes, unfortunately I haven't found any on Aqualung.
Joel, the owner of TDS and a member here, is an Aqualung dealer. His shop is in Arizona, but he is one of the few that I would trust (I service my own.) He is currently down in FL undergoing his cave training, so you might want to give him a few days to respond to you.
Where in Canada are you? I know a very good reg. tech.Quote:
Originally Posted by littleleemur
I'm currently visiting family in Toronto. & my SO will be bringing my regs, BC and tanks back home to at x'mas for service/annual checkup. Just am annoyed that we moved to an area where no LDS could do them properly. Plus, not really wanting to make it a yearly habit of schelpping gear plus x'mas presents up. :p
I go to Toronto on a regular basis, and I live in Ottawa, where the tech is. Let me know if you're interested, I can PM you the info. :)