Dive Masters Dive Masters Dive Masters

Dive masters, dive masters, dive masters.....oh where to start? There is so much to say about this issue I think there needs to be a thread on that alone, well here is that thread. It seems like just about every diver has a different opinion on what they would want or like from a dive master, and every dive master is completely different from another. It is almost imposable to judge how the dive master / diver relationship is going to work out until you are diving together. Personally, I want a dive master that gives me a safety briefing ONCE and tells me what to expect on the dive. After that I prefer that my dive master worries about everyone else and leaves me and my wife to enjoy our dive. Now my wife and I dive together exclusively and always enjoy the dive much more then we ever did when diving with others. I don't want help getting on the boat, I don't want them to touch my gear, I can carry my own fins up the ladder and I can hand my wife her camera before I jump in. I already checked my gear and air, please don't turn my air valve I have it set exactly where I want it (full open - 1/4 turn). Now I also completely understand they trying to help, but I also make it clear before the dive that I don't want help except in an emergency. I also know most people do not want that treatment and would be really pissed id a DM treated them that way. I also hate pompous dive masters, something I find way too often. I know it is a cool job, and you are in great shape, tan and enjoying the island life, but unlike you most of us have jobs and work very hard for a week or two of diving every year. We didn't spend all of that money to be told why you are a better diver or why your gear is cooler then ours, or you logged 10,000 dives or whatever. We are not there to be impressed by your accomplishments, we are there to enjoy our partners and our vacation.

I don't want to come off too negative, this was in response to another thread, rather the idea here is to find what people want and don't want in a dive master. It is also an opportunity for dive masters to give their point of view as we surely are not seeing things from their point of view.

Politely make your requests know to the DM(s). Once they see your skills, they will begin backing off. That has been my experience.
Remember, there are those that would stress what you mentioned was not enough attention.
Be kind to your DM for caring enough to want to help. I've been on boats where to them it was a chit-chat ride. Either way, give everyone a chance and the benefit of doubt. Remain polite and curtious.
Remember to tip your DM's for every dive, whether the are with or without you.
They are there, behind the scenes for your benefit and safety.

While I agree you should be polite to your DM, just as you should be polite to all people you meet. That being said, remember they are being paid to do a job, and indirectly they are being paid by you, so therefore you are in theory their boss. They should surely do as the boss tells them!

In my view Dive Masters should be that, people that have mastered diving. They should be able to answer all my questions and discuss any difference of opinions we might have. They should have knowledge of all training agencies and how those agencies train. They should also have knowledge of all types of diving equipment not just a single cylinder with a BCD.

I have met too many DM's that have no knowledge of diving outside of their current location. Whilst they might be useful to tell you about the next dive site they have no other use unless they meet the above requirements.

I once had a DM telling me how good he was and how much he knew, I spent the rest of the day expalining how little he really knew and that the best quote in diving is 'The more I know about diving the more I realise I don't know'.

I don't necessary agree 100% with your idea of DM requirements I do agree generally with what you are saying. I don't know that anyone ever masters diving, and believe continuing education should be a requirement for DM's. Maybe a good idea as you kind of touched on would be cross agency training.

I am a locksmith and similarly to a DM, I had to train and was tested before I could obtain my license however I must also take classes every year to keep my license. This keeps me up to date with current codes and procedures as well as new equipment and techniques. I would suspect that everyone here would agree that continuing education can only benefit everyone. There are costs involved for the classes and such, but they are really reasonably priced and is part of the cost of dong business.

I also don't take those classes from one teacher or agency. Most manufacturers offer classes on their products as well as training schools, association classes and more.

The need for more classes would also help the dive industry grow. More classes mean more dive conventions to offer classes. More certifications would also mean DM's could get paid more for their knowledge.

I moved from New Zealand where I worked in diving for several years to Egypt where I worked as an Instructor for nearly 7 years, often you are in an environment where there are too many people looking for diving work, those who are good at their job will eventually stand out and get a reasonable ammount of work while the other type will end up spending most of their time sitting in a bar somewhere.

Some things I take issue with, firstly the "I paid for it so I'm the boss" line, to be frank working as a dive guide you meet all kinds of customers just as you have meet all kinds of guides, arrogant, rude, obnoxious and often their skill are alot poorer than they make out. You bend over backwards to try and give your customers a good time and in return they treat you like the hired help and for what? How much do you think a guide gets paid? In the areas I worked the going rate was 8- 10€ per dive, 8- 10€ for diving for up to an hour you say?

How about I do 3 guided dives in one day, as a guide I'm at the dive centre at 8am checking equipment, making sure the O2 and first aid kits are in good order, filling in the paper work for the day, loading tanks and equipment onto the pick up, checking weather conditions to make sure we go somewhere where the customers will have good, safe dives etc. Then the customers turn up, the first time you meet them your getting them to fill out forms, sorting out equipment, working out buddy pairs, giving them the full Rules, regs and safety breifing (if you don't give these breifings and something goes wrong who do you think the finger is pointed at? ) etc.
Then your out for the whole day, when you get back to the dive centre, more paperwork, more tanks, cleaning etc etc.

I love my job, I really do BUT IT IS A REAL JOB and what you get paid for it in some areas can be seen as insulting. Not to mention that diving day after day can take a physical toll and quickly degrades your equipment, paying for insurance and replacing equipment is your own problem.

The customers can really make a guides day totally miserable, not listening, talking down to them and "going missing" during the dive. Then you have the "experienced" photograher who likes to stomp all over the coral to get their photos, guides aren't just there to look after the well being of the customer, they are there to look after the well being of the dive site that all too many customers show little care and consideration of, the guide is there to make sure certain types of divers obay the rules and don't go shooting off to 80m with a single tank on their back and never return.

And try telling a customer who knows everything that their bouyancy is totally shocking and they are a hazzard to themselves and the environment around them.

A good guide will give a full and thorough breifing on first meeting the customers, he/ she will take them on an easy dive first to assess their skill level (you never take their word for it or trust their log, read lie, book ), then decide on which sites are appropriate for the divers, as time goes on and the guide feels the divers have the skill, experience and can be trusted not to do anything stupid or break off chunks of coral to take home to show the lads they will become far more relaxed with them.

A good guide doesn't want you to follow them around at speed and give orders and signals every 2 minutes they want you to have a good safe time, treat them with atleast a bit of respect and courtesy and leave the centre happy ready to return to request them back as a guide.

As guides can be a pain in the ass to you, so can customers be a pain in the ass to guides, believe me I and my friends have had to rescue many from themselves, often putting ourselves at risk to do so.

I am happy to see we are getting to see things from a dive professionals point of view.

I may have come across a little harsh with my statement regarding being the boss considering I am paying, and I didn't mean in in the way I believe you took it. I was trying to convey the message that we are paying customers and should be treated as such. All too often that is not the case.

I know, agree and understand that the pay sucks. I assume most people do those jobs because they love diving. One of the reasons I talked about continuing education requirements was to help increase the pay for dive professionals.

On top of that, we almost always tip our boat crew. We make sure to tip extra well when the crew does an above average job. We also don't tip when we are unhappy with the service. This has not happened too often, but unfortunately it has happened.

I know your job can be difficult and frustrating, but it is your job and the career you chose. Part of a dive professional's job education should be a class on how to properly treat and speak to customers so they understand what you are telling them and are not insulted or demeaned.

I totally agree with what your saying, I met some really arrogant DMs and Instructors who are just as you describe, they give the good ones a bad name. Some of them seem to be in the job just to pick up women.
In my opinion what makes someone good at the job is realising that they don't know everything and make an effort to keep learning, I've found that you can learn from customers as well as other professionals.
One of the biggest problems guides have is customers turning up with qualifications that their instructor seems to have just handed to them, I once had a customer who wanted to do his advanced OW, I told him I wanted to get him in the water first and do a quick skills check with him, he hadn't been diving for a couple of months and only had 6 logged dives, he refused to take his mask off, apparently during his ow course he panicked each time he tried so his instructor allowed him to carry on without doing so then qualified him.
I spent a whole day with him in the water updating/ re-teaching him skills and in the end he was taking his mask off without a problem. I told him to report his instructor to the relevant training agency.
Often guides end up being instructors and nurse maids and for no extra pay and it often comes down to poor training and bad instructors in the first place.
Most good guides soon pick up whether their customers are properly trained or not and if they're working at a good dive centre with good management then they will change the group structure accordingly sometimes splitting the group and bringing in an extra guide.
However, there are some downright nasty managers out there who hate spending money and if the guide makes any trouble for them (read that as doing their job properly ) they will soon be replaced, there's always someone else willing to do the job, usually the rubbish dive guide you were referring to in your earlier post.
When work has been quiet I've been called by dive centres to do some freelance work, on arriving at the centre I've found rusty O2 kits, old un-serviced rental gear, no first aid kits and they want you to take a group of up to 10 customers out with mixed skill levels, some with over 500 logged dives mixed with freshly certified ow divers. I've just told them to forget it and walked out, usually with verbal abuse ringing in my ears from the manager.
What I'm getting at here is that the customer has a responsibility to themselves to thoroughly check out the dive centre first, what is their equipment like? What shape is the compressor room in? What size groups do they take out? Do they ask to see you cert card and log book? Are they genuinely friendly? Can you meet your guide first?
Most problems with bad guides can be avoided by doing this as good dive centres with almost always have good guides, unfortunately from my experience at the counter too many customers are more concerned with a cheap deal than with the above concerns.
On the point of tipping it is always much appreciated by the guide or instructor however when working at resorts it is a rare thing and where I was, not expected. The customer base is from all over the world and tipping is not in the culture.
In the end I'm just pointing out that no matter where you go or what you do in this world you'll always find ********s on both sides of the fence. :)

"what you do in this world you'll always find ********s on both sides of the fence. "

Short story long, don't be one of those ********s. Display the exemplary character. Lead with positive, and constructive examples.

Thanks Lars....uggg. :beat:

It is true that most careers in the recreation dive field do not pay at all.

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Originally Posted by The Publisher

It is true that most careers in the recreation dive field do not pay at all.

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True and very unfortunate, but something that is pretty known to people before entering into diving as a career. There are some dive jobs that pay extremely well, but usually they are nothing even remotely close to the diving we do or think of.

I have found DM's to be "People" with all the positives and all the negatives and sometimes an ego! If your skills are at the top of your game a good DM will know from the start! Don't start a "Pissing match" with a DM or Instructor and you'll find your experience a better one.... They should know their sites and conditions better than a visitor and pass that info on to the Paying customer! I have had groups where I will talk to the DM before hand and point out people that might need some watching or tell them "Don't worry" about a certain person as their skills are top notch.... Their job is tough being nice to the general public and keeping a good attitude while herding chickens on a time schedule.... DM are required most places, so it is something you have to live with, might as well make the best of it ;)

I find once they know your skill level and if they enjoy diving as much as you, you will get the cool critters and places pointed out to you on the "Extended dive" or the special added bonus play!!! Remember the industry is a young persons industry and the normal profile is 21 to 31 and gone!

You should be able to express quietly to the DM without challenging them what YOU are looking for in your dive and vacation!