The first (and hopefully not the last) SMN dive trip

okay, considering the previous discussion thread about a group diving trip somewhere within this world of ours. As quite a few of you have said that you'd be interested (single or not). i wanted to get a confirmation of some sort as to the where, what, when, why and hows of this thing.

So, to get the ball rolling. What would your answers be to the following questions?

1.) Where
- Eilat, Israel.
- Thailand
- somewhere else (please specify)

2.) When
Should this be next year, especially as there is only 3 months left of this year - when would be better (spring, summer, fall/autumn or winter)?

3.) How
- Stay in a resort and get a private boat charter for diving
- go on a liveaboard?
- other? (please specify)

4.) Why
I don't think that there needs to be a why apart from it being a complete blast and being able to see the faces behind the names.

5.) AOB
Is there anything else that we would need to take into consideration? Should this be open to everyone or, be related to diving experience (e.g. AOW minimum with 20+ dives??)

Discuss..in no less than 20 words :D :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lottie

okay, considering the previous discussion thread about a group diving trip somewhere within this world of ours. As quite a few of you have said that you'd be interested (single or not). i wanted to get a confirmation of some sort as to the where, what, when, why and hows of this thing.

So, to get the ball rolling. What would your answers be to the following questions?

1.) Where
- Eilat, Israel.
- Thailand
- somewhere else (please specify)

2.) When
Should this be next year, especially as there is only 3 months left of this year - when would be better (spring, summer, fall/autumn or winter)?

3.) How
- Stay in a resort and get a private boat charter for diving
- go on a liveaboard?
- other? (please specify)

4.) Why
I don't think that there needs to be a why apart from it being a complete blast and being able to see the faces behind the names.

5.) AOB
Is there anything else that we would need to take into consideration? Should this be open to everyone or, be related to diving experience (e.g. AOW minimum with 20+ dives??)

Discuss..in no less than 20 words :D :D

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Where - St. Lawrence River Alexandria Bay NY (Thousand Island Region) Many intact wrecks for all levels.

When - Mid to late September. Water is still warm enough for wet suits mid 60's to low 70's (no thermocline) The tourist season is over but there is still plenty of shops and hotels open and there is still good weather Charters are available with in 45 min drive in Canada

How - how else stay at the Riverside Edge or other resort, shore dives, bottle hunting, charters Lots of places to gather or go off on your own.

Why - It is the best fresh water diving available and I want to promote the area, and as I have small children I may be able to actually meet you. (Okay I admit that not all of you may not want to met me:D )

AOB (?) Open to all, I understand the reason there are single/couple only events and even though I am married I don't like being excluded just becauase I have a spouse or not...

Okay exceded my limits, but I do not travel much right now and these are obviously self serving answers but it is a start...:)

Nice format Lottie...

I think Daddy-H2O is on to something. I am thinking maybe we should pick a spot that is local to someone on the board. It would make things MUCH easier having a local that has knowledge of the area and dive conditions.

I would LOVE to have divers come visit my area and do some wreck dives, but it is not something that would be open to a lot of divers without additional training.

Again, Daddy-H20 has a great idea with the St. Lawerence or the Great Lakes region in general. There is something for divers of all skill levels. Plus it would give some of you a nice introduction to cold water diving(I am telling you this is really fun!!!).

I agree with all prior responses. I, too, have two small children (4 1/2 and 14 months) and somewhere local is great. I also like cold water diving. I recommend the Long Island/Connecticut/Rhode Island region as this is "Wreckk Alley" and also has the benefit of topside attractions such as a place some may have heard of called New York City!

Springtime is great! Great water conditions on Long Island sound/ Atlantic ocean south of Long Island, Central Park is coming to life with all the flowers, etc.

We could also make a 2008 Tour series: Go to several places that eacjh of us live, and that will allow us the experience factor of a local, variety, etc. Do one or all! Whatever fits your schedule!

Ace,
By definition (SSI) Cold water diving is in water less than 70 degrees F, I typically can do 2 dives in water as warm as 48 degrees F in my 7mm wet suit so my idea od cold may be diffrent from anothers idea. I would love to share my diving with others willing to brave the "elements".

I agree with you, Colder water is fun too...

And not just every diver skill or level but there would be stuff for non-diving family members too...

plan lottie plan!!!!

I agree about the 2008 series thing, i think its great.
we could just pick a place that one of us lives at a time and just up and go there, there is the financial aspect of this aswell, to travel to NYC half round the world or even more for some could be a problem unless planned for way in advance, and even then there might come the unexpected, like daddy said, some have kids and a life that is harder to leave just like that.

we will just have to vote it as to where to go. some of us might not make it for legit reasons but the ones that can make it have the fun and new friends right?

as for dive certs and levels: AOW is good, 20 dives is good, depending on what sites there are on the agenda, we coule also go by theme for each trip aswell. that way, a wreck penetration dive trip will not be open for some, though groups can be put together to dive outside the wrecks for instance.

well, we could also form sort of a group that will just organise dive trips round the world not depending on where we are from.

Good show Lottie :)

Where: for the first trip it would be in the beginning of the year, somewhere warm, if you dont mind the cold of January or Febuary.
that takes care of the when
How: resort that has an option to charter boats, ot could also be a liveaboard, depending on what the group elected to get this going decides.

Why: Lottie gave a pretty good reason that is hard to argue with :)
besides, we could make this an SMN tradition :) would that be grand :)

whaddiya say?

We have every intention on doing SMN group dive get-togethers.

We'd like to start off with once a year, then twice. We too think 2008 would be right, as the dive travel agency experts say that these type of groups trips are normally offered 8 months to a year in advance so as to give participants plenty of time to schedule.

After 35 years of cold water diving, and after starting to do tropical dive travel a few years back, I too am now a warm-water-weenie.

DiverDaniel,
You raise some good points.
I think the main thing about this trip (if we ever pull this off instead of creating loads of hot air just talking about it) is that it should be fun for all and not specialized (maybe I'm saying the wrong thing here) - but, something that we can all do, so that noone in the discussion stages feels excluded as its not what they want to do/feel comfortable about doing/can't do due to their skillset.
Speaking for me personally, i wouldn't feel comfortable about doing a wreck-penetration dive (or just diving around it) and would probably say no about going down and would go off and do something different....if there are other people on the group trip, it spoils the fun of what a group trip is all about - doing stuff as a group...

We don't want people to do something that they physically can't do and then find that there are problems, then accidents can occur - which is one thing we want to avoid at all costs.

I'm thinking that for this first trip a land-based location (as opposed to a liveaboard) would be better. At least, there will be more activities for people to do, plus if there are spouses/non-divers around, there is more for them to do (if there are a number of them) so they can go off and do whatever while the rest of us are diving to our hearts content. (which completely contradicts what I said above....D'uh!!)

Hopefully you lot can make some sense of my dis-understandable drivel... :D

I think you have the right idea Lottie.


Like I said before, I would love to have divers visit my area and go diving, but it is not diving for all types of divers.

The land based place will help get the divers with non diving family able to come along. We also have to think about political sanctions as well, for example even though Cuba has some great diving none of us from the US are able to go there.

I have never been there but I have read a lot saying Bonaire is one of the best dive vacation places to go.

I have a few articles on Bonaire and I can provide more info if needed. The one cool thing I read about Bonaire is that there are all diferent types of dives for all skill levels. Another great thing is that you don't need to charter a boat to go diving as there are EASY beach dives just about everywhere. The best thing of all though is that there are 24 hour a day air fills! SOOOOOOO, there is really unlimited diving available. Bring the flash lights and we can do some night dives.

Anyone else have any input on Bonaire? Anyone from there? Anyone been there?

It is a cool idea ... St. Lawrence or Great Lakes would be neat since I have never been and always wanted to and it is close enough to me that it is actually conceivable I might be able to go! lol ... So that is nice for ME! But I also like the idea of a tropical destination . . . . warm water diving is pretty cool ... ;) (little bit of thermal wordplay there ... *snicker*)

I will definately head to the Great Lakes as well, it is not very far for me and would not require a plane ride.


I found this info on Bonaire from Sucba Diving Magazine's web site:



While Cayman has its wall diving, and Cozumel its drift diving, shore diving is Bonaire's thing. Shore diving here means freedom from dive boats, schedules, crowds and rough seas. You'll find dozens of dive sites, marked by more than 60 highly visible yellow stones along the road. Rent a jeep, load your gear and some tanks, and pick a site. Shore diving is what made the island popular among divers more than 30 years ago, and today, it's what keeps divers coming back.

The island has some of the most pristine and healthiest reefs in the world, thanks to the protection afforded by its marine park. Bonaire's marine park authority, STINAPA, strictly enforces marine park rules, including no anchoring, no spearfishing and no gloves.

Bonaire's boomerang shape creates a calm leeward side, though the sites farther north or south of Kralendijk are more challenging. Typically, Bonaire's small beaches continue under water in a sandy plain dotted with a few corals that slopes down to 30 feet. The reef drops off gradually to another sandy plain at about 140 feet. You don't have to go that deep, however, to see healthy stands of gorgonians, dense coral formations and every imaginable species of Caribbean reef fish. There are another two dozen or so sites off Klein Bonaire, located about 500 yards from Bonaire's west coast. Klein is a quiet, undeveloped 1,750-acre island.


Dive In

Weather: Temperatures hover between 75 and 85 degrees, depending on the season. Onshore trade winds keep humidity at bay.

Average Water Temp: Water temps average 80 degree in summer and mid-70s in winter.

Average Visibility: 60 to 100 feet or greater, depending on currents and plankton.

Travel Savvy: A valid passport is required. Before your first dive, you will be required to make an orientation dive and purchase a $25 marine park dive tag. Departure tax is $20.

Personally I prefer the convenience of the boat doing the dive taxi service for me, and then never having to worry about who is going to stay on the beach and watch the remaining gear or the rental car....

I have been told there are Bonaire based resorts that run dives with their single tank boats.....We intend on doing an HD production out of a SMN group trip, and lugging the rig around in rental cars would be...well, "challenging" lol.

I do think it would be fun when not diving to rent some larger cars and go off on a a group Island Road Trip.

Bonaire diving might not have as many macro critters as Asia but the water may be a tad clearer although we were seeing 100 feet/3) meters visibility off Verde Island in the Philippines.

I think somewhere in our list there is a Bonaire Resort that has invited us out to do a review....I know Bonaire would work decent for Lottie although I hear she really wants to make those 4 days of flying each way trips to Asia ;)

Just some thoughts.

Well, that is going to be the biggest thing. Location to everyone. What we have to do is find out where the majority of the interested users live and make it close for them. I guess, that would be best at least. Considering this is a global community, this is going to be very difficult.

I personally am willing to travel a little further to get better diving, but others may prefer closer.

Others might prefer diving not as good to get something closer. I know if we move it around a tad, over successive trips, it can give us a chance to meet further ranging members.

Thailand is a real long haul for Lottie, but the diving and land activities are pretty good, and I know Quero would be a happy camper, but Bonaire would be good for Lottie, and Quero might be an unhappy camper, lol. Maybe Quero can bring us up to speed if there is good land based resort diving off Phuket that does day boat trips.

I guess if we just mix it around, so we do the best we can find in the Caribbean, the best we can find in Thailand, the same for the Philippines, something in Indonesia as Bangka and Lembeh really rocks, something in the Red Sea that Daniel confirms is not crowded with huge boats and divers swarming like plankton on a HID night light, lol, all destinations not necessarily in that order, we'll all get to our different members' areas.

I personally don't mind traveling a little further from the U.S if that makes it more convenient for one or more of our members as long as the diving and video opportunities are there and we can work a good group rate deal for our members.

i tend to fully agree with Publisher :)

As far as I'm concerned, I cannot leave Thailand during high season (November to May); I have to stay here to run my dive school/booking agency. I can join (or help organize) a Thailand trip, but I can't go elsewhere. I would be willing to join a Bonaire trip in October 2008 since I will have to go to the east coast US anyway and I could fold the two together without adding thousands of dollars in airfare.

While I understand that many divers are fascinated by wrecks, quarries and other human artifacts, I am personally unmoved by those things and prefer a place with intersting marine life and natural geography. So I'm not at all tempted to join any bottle hunting expeditions (and it's not for lack of opportunity--I have a kid in upstate New York, a brother in Michigan, and then there's Pattaya just across the peninsula if I wanted to see rusting hulks underwater).

For those of you willing or interested in coming to Thailand for a liveaboard experience to the Similan islands and north to the Burma border, I have four dozen or so boats in my file--all price ranges--with open sailing dates for this coming high season. Even with a small group (6 to 8), there is plenty of time now for me to get a deal--I don't need 8 or 9 months lead time. I would be able to join that trip, for sure!

if it's warm water diving for a group I'd think about Roatan A number of resorts there will reserve a boat or boats specifically for the group also most offer unlimited air for shore diving ,which is easily accesible at most locations I've been once and loved it and I intend to go back just a thought

Quero,

The mystery/wreck/cave diving thing is primarily a guy thing. I am a former salt water reef tank serious hobbyist who could discuss oxygen/reduction potentials of oceanic reef ecospheres, so what appeals to me is unusual marine life, macro and otherwise and filming it, so in that regards my dive style is more like what women and photogs of bother genders like, although to maintain some semblance of manliness via the equipment nut tactic, I usually dive with the rebreather, lol.

What we would probably try to do is if we book a group trip somewhere other than Thailand at any point, our goal would be to do it when it is not your high season as you mentioned, that way you would at least be available.

Since you're the Thailand expert, is there a way to dive off places like Phuket, but still be more or less land based? I know a live aboard can go further, but land based activities unrelated to diving are fun diversions, and it allows members to bring non-divers. I personally enjoy diving 3-4 dives a day, then go out about the area walking/driving around, checking out different eateries, etc. so I could use some info.


TJack, I hear the no-see-ums are bad on Roatan and surrounding Bay Islands, but then again so are the mosquitoes in Asia if you don't take precautions, so give us the scoop?

i am actualy brand new to diving. i got into it by myself and need people to dive with. so i would be willing to dive with any of you willing to drag along a novice. as to where the great lakes/st.lawrence sounds good to me, close enough i can get away from work. but i am open to any dive that someone is williong to go beginer with me (sorry, but i'm new). definitly let me know though.

quinn,

When most of us dive tropical, the types of dives we do 95% of the time are suitable for those new to diving.

We have members here right up your alley as far as location and types of diving preferred.

Look through the regional forums and also post your info there, and don't forget to fill out your user control panel profile as to where you are and what type of diving you like.

Welcome to the forum!

Much as I'd love to meet you all in the 'flesh', unless my future includes a major lottery win, I can't see me getting to the US any time soon.:(
However, if you do arrange a trip to somewhere within a couple of time zones of West Australia, ( Thailand, Malaysia, Phillipines, Indonesia etc), then I am certainly interested.
It also goes without saying that if any of you ever find yourselves on the Aussie West Coast then get in touch and I'd be happy to buddy up for a dive or ten!
Of course, in the spirit of singing the praises of our own localities, can I put a suggestion in for Ningaloo reef ? Warm water, pristine corals, more macro/micro photo opportunities than you can shake a strobe at and the possibility of Whale Sharks, ( in season).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Publisher

Quero,
<snip> to maintain some semblance of manliness via the equipment nut tactic, I usually dive with the rebreather, lol.

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Aha! Some guys take trophy wives; you get trophy gear, LOL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Publisher

What we would probably try to do is if we book a group trip somewhere other than Thailand at any point, our goal would be to do it when it is not your high season as you mentioned, that way you would at least be available.

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Very considerate of you! And much appreciated.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Publisher

Since you're the Thailand expert, is there a way to dive off places like Phuket, but still be more or less land based? I know a live aboard can go further, but land based activities unrelated to diving are fun diversions, and it allows members to bring non-divers. I personally enjoy diving 3-4 dives a day, then go out about the area walking/driving around, checking out different eateries, etc. so I could use some info.

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Sure, we could do land-based. And it would even be possible to organize a mini-safari by changing land bases. Here's one way to do it:

We could start out at Khao Lak to do daytrip diving via speedboat at the wonderful northern sites of Richelieu Rock, Koh Tachai and Koh Bon, as well as Elephant Head Rock and the Similans. It won't be as comfortable or exciting for the divers as a four-day LOB, but it is certainly possible to do these dives this way. Typically, these are two-tank trips (for logistics of customer transfers to far away hotels) but if we are taking up the whole speedboat, we should be able to negotiate the trips to our liking and do three-dive days.

After a few days, we can transfer down to Phuket Island proper and do some daytrips from there, giving everybody who wants to experience the party mode in Patong to do so. Of course we would dive my favorite local sites and get in two, three or four dives a day. There are many interesting things to do on the island, in particular sea kayaking and muay thai matches.

Next we can transfer down to the idyllic Koh Lanta and use it as a base to dive the spectacular seamounts Hin Daeng and Hin Muang as well as other nice sites nearby such as Koh Ha.

How does that sound? If it raises more questions than it answers, keep asking--I left out a lot of details in the interest of (relative) brevity.

Quero, that sounds fantastic.

The other question that springs to mind is how long should this trip be? One week? two weeks? ten days?

I would say 3-5 days for starters?
easier on all that have work
and a busy life.

Most trips are in the 5-7 day range. Places like the Carribean can be done in the 4-5 day range.

I know Europe is big on 14 day trips, but that is just not popular in the U.S.

When I sit down and talk at DEMA with the 4 or so big tropical trip travel agencies, I sill talk to them and see how it would work out for those that want to do only 5 days as far as airfare....it would be cut and dried for the resort/dive portion.

That is the other thing. If we are going to have to pay for an expensive flight (for many of us it will be an expensive flight) then I would be really upset to only stay for 4-5 days. I am thinking 7-10 days would be a good duration.

If it is a really good dive destination with lots to see, videotape and do, I am up for being there 7 days.

Where are we talking about?

Lars, we're talking about how time is correlated into groupings, and in this case, grouping 24 hours into seven consecutive sessions, hence the "7 days" designation.

Ok, now that I am done being silly, we're talking about a ScubaMagazine.net Group Trip...and members are expressing their different ideas as to locations, length of time, extracurricular excursions, boat based, land based, etc.

I see....
Anywhere in the world? That's a tough one.
I agree travel time and cost dictate length of stay.
Personally, the more time and cost it takes me to get to a destination,
the longer I prefer to stay. As for activities, when I go on a dive trip,
I dive dive dive.. 4 or more a day..
If there is a group going along and as long as the majority of time is
spent diving, where perhaps on the fourth day, after a couple of dives in
the morning, the group took a tour somewhere to see the site, that would be
OK. As long as we're diving again the next day... etc...
Get the picture?

Thanks for the quick reply...
BTW, what do you get with you combine 24x7?

And that is one of the positive things about a liveaboard, they are usually 7 day charters.

Considering this is a SCUBA MAGAZINE trip, maybe a liveaboard would be the best thing. Bottom line is we will be there to dive and a liveaboard would provide us with the most amount of diving with the least amount of work.

Publisher, you would only have to load your gear on the boat one time! I was watching a DVD about the Aggressor Fleet and it looks SWEET!!! I know there are other liveaboards out there as well, so I am not saying they are the answer, but the boats look nice and plush as well.

By the way, Costa Rica looks really nice as well.

Also remember on a liveaboard, there are shore excersions as well if you like.

After 35 years of diving, I am fine with 4 dives a day and even some days 3 if there are things to do on land. Coco Beach Resort which we reviewed had the most interesting little white bangka sailboat that was all by its lonesome and in the hustle and bustle of getting enough footage, I would have really enjoyed detaching the mooring rope from the beach and letting that thing spreads its wings and run free in the breezy bay and relaxing on the water sailing about in Paradise.

I am not so enamored with live-aboards, although I do know they can get to more remote and more varied dive sites. I lived on a boat full time for years.

In Sulawesi we did run into the Sulawesi Aggressor and 8 or so divers on one dive site and I shot some good wideangle HD video of them all underwater which will be in our next HD production from the review we did on Mimpi Indah Resort, which in the future will be on our group trip list where we split a trip between Bangka Island and a Lembeh, and when you see the HD video which we're in the middle of editing, you'll want to go too.

We can get better deals with land based though as the competition is greater. Additionally, if some miss their flight or it is delayed, they can just join us the following day, so the scheduling is not so tight. As an experienced dive travel writer and publisher, I am an expert at missing flights, and I worked very diligently to get good at it, and I am not about ready to throw away my hard earned reputation. ;)

Also, if some decide they want to only do 5-6 days while the rest of us do 7 or so, then travelers have that option still open.

I personally find the idea of a group going out to different restaurants to eat and tell tall tales as a group rather fun. Plus I am attached to the Internet like a co-joined twin.

I thought for sure Thailand would not be doable land based, but thank goodness Quero had the answers with day trips.

In Yap I was able to go off and explore the Island, seeing local fisherman wading out a 1/4 mile to net fish, fine mangroves and mud skippers, and the traditional native dance and song experience was nice as I got to see young people taking pride in and not losing touch with their heritage in the face of the epitomy of refined cultural class known as baggy pants, crooked sports caps and ghetto gangster rap.

I think as time goes by and we get more photographers and videographers on board, we can do he occasional live aboard now and then, and the idea of a half live aboard, then half land based trip I find appealing so we get the best of both worlds although a live aboard for 4 days might be rare.

Would it help to set a deadline? ( at least for location?)

By way of example we decide, that we will have a destination decided by Nov.1.

Another thing I really would favor is an all inclusive. Of course live aboards are already all inclusive, but some land based destinations are also all inclusive. It is really nice to know what you are going to spend for your trip before you even go!

The last time we went to an all inclusive, you could not even leave a tip. So all you have to bring is money for gifts and such. The nice thing about them, is you can eat and drink as much as you want and 24 hours a day there is something fresh cooking. There are also a lot of activities for the non divers or the divers that would also like to do other things. Some of the things they offer are:
sailing, water skiing, kayaking, snorkling, shopping, night club, shows, music, pool, hot tub and much more.

Of course you can also go out on your own or with a group to the local clubs and attractions. I know not all areas have all inclusive resorts, but that may help to narrow down our search.

I think DaddyH20 has raised a good point - therefore, I've created a new poll to ascertain which location peeps want to go to for this trip

Click here

This can be found in the ScubaMagazine Site News section. The poll closes on the 1st November.

when I was there deet took care of any bug issues if you like macro oppurtunities Roatan is heaven with sea horse tube worms shrimp blennies and nudis galore the reason I sugested as a group destination is the ease of getting there from USA Canada and Europe as there are now direct flights into Roatan the other reason I sugested it is the ease of diving for all experience levels there are walls that drop to wherever so you can dive them at what ever depth you are comfortable withat most dive sites there is little or no current most start at a depth of 15-35 before you drop over the wall so you can spend you're safety stop looking for macro opportunities on top of the reef that and for the budget minded as I am they offer deals that can't be beat

TJACK,
Wow, I almost ran out of breath reading your post...
Sounds good to me.. Never been to Roatan.

Cheers,

i agree Lars - tjack, that sounds good as well (luckily I voted for roatan - hehehehehe)