Is the PADI OW Manual too simplified?

When I took my PADI OW, I really really felt that I was going to fail. :(

It wasn't the material, but the way PADI chose to present it. I think I was given the International ESL CD-version. There was no textbook & all the videos and text were on this CD I would play on my computer.

A sample page would be 5 sentences & a short 30-second video of Amanda and Hiroshi deciding to take a PADI OW course at their LDS. The next page would be the next 5 sentences and another 20-second video of Ahmed and Ian sitting side by side by a pool. The page after that would be 45-seconds of Mei-Ling and Antonio buddying up while Marie-Chantal and Jesus did the buddy check....etc etc & they talked soooo s l o w l y . . . .:rolleyes:

If it wasn't for that adrenaline pumping techno-step-aerobics music PADI likes to set their videos too, I would have fallen asleep.

I looked at some older PADI manuals at a used bookstore and they at least had more than 5 sentences per age. Was it just that CD version I got? Or is PADI dumbing it down to the point where is borders on prescription insomnia therapy?:confused:

I've watched an industry fail to mature, an industry that will, unfortunately, never mature, because at its root is not a solid foundation of industry leaders trying to make an honest buck by putting out a product that is better than competing products. It (diver training) is, by-and-large, an industry of hucksters who run about attempting to do two contradictory things simultaneously: 1. market to an uninformed public a product of ever decreasing quality, whilst 2. increasing their profit margin by trying to reduce the costs associated with operating the program. This creates an industry that eats its seed corn that will implode ... its only a question of when. The eLearning and the LDS vs internet sales issue is part and parcel of the same thing. Permit me to point you to JimLaps' insightful comment on another board:

I don't know what this new version you talk about is like but I quite enjoyed my initial training (6yrs ago) and found it quite informative - however since then I have found the scuba reviews to be daft as they always ask the same questions and cover the same pieces of information instead of revising the wider depth of knowledge on the original course - this means that there are somethings on the original course that are never covered. I think we all need to revise our original knowledge on a regular basis to ensure that we are safe divers and remember vital information in an emergency situation.

Remember too - none of us ever stop learning and we should all continue to widen our knowledge throughout our lives as divers - continuously seeking out new information can't be bad and will stop you falling asleep! LOL :)

In the end it is up to the instructor who signs off on your C-Card! The idea, beyond the old hard core training, is to compartmentalizes the training so that you're not going to learn everything in your OWC! Do the agencies have to be competitive? Yes! Will capitalism win out in the end? Yes!

The idea isn't that hard to understand, broaden the base and get more people involved in the activity of diving at a basic level! Not everyone will go much beyond that point, but some will that never would have if they hadn't have had an easy way to find out!

The beauty of this kind of system is it doesn't create systems that will not be recognized from one area to another.... Such as you were trained in Cozumel and can't get air in Laguna Beach! The training has to be universal and comprehensive for THE LEVEL that is being taught!

It has not proven out that the PADI system is a failure except to those that are so tied to the "Old School" that they see nothing else! The concept is once tried that SCUBA will get into the blood and compel that student to learn more and seek more experience and training! Without the bodies the industry will never support the activity or grow! It will be considered an Extreme activity and many capable divers will have never taken the plunge!

The important thing to emphasize is diving within your comfort, education, and experience zone! No one should be denied the SCUBA experience! From 8 to 108 you should be able to enjoy the underwater world at your own level! Just because you have a drivers license doesn't mean you can drive an 18 wheeler or even a car! You have to gain experience and confidence!

It is easy for those of us who were trained through fire to criticize those who aren't! It was our intent to dive come hell or high water and nothing would have stopped that! But my experience is not someone else's it is mine and I have come to recognize that some don't have that passion! I want people to see my world, to try it you'll like it, to get wet and take the plunge! To, yes support the industry and learn to appreciate the skills that make you a Master Diver! The more divers the more resorts, the more boats, the more equipment, and the more divers!

Where you take it is up to you! The entry level should be the bunny hill and there are things that you just don't need yet! The Cave industry did the same thing with Cavern and Cave! Some will never go beyond Cavern and don't need the Cave portion! So do we want to teach it all in basic? When I did it, it was in a University setting and class and lab were just standard operating procedure and as I said "Nothing was going to stop me"! That included 8ft waves, crawling over rocks, and jumping off the High-Dive with our gear on! Did it make me a better diver? YES! But it is not the only way to get to the desired goal!

So I chose not to criticize the agencies until I see the end results! If it is more divers that are safe divers then I will continue to support them! If the numbers of problems increase disproportional to the overall numbers then the industry will self adjust due to law suits and good old capitalism!

Until then I know what makes divers and that is diving! Nothing replaces experience and seeking knowledge because you want to, not because your made to!;)

The funny part of the whole thing is I would have gotten certified long ago but my uncle (very very old school - British Navy Diver) had repeatedly told me throughout my childhood that a thorough handle of college calculus and physics was necessary to even be considered for a Basic Course!:eek:

Heck, I was cramming the night before walking into my LDS! I was nervous that they would discover my rusty maths & physics and refuse to accept me on the course! Imagine my surprise (& relief) when they not only sold me the OW but also bundled the Advanced course in too!

My original question was if PADI was trying too hard to simplify their course but in the process made it more difficult to learn? I'm not criticizing their material, just that particular method of delivery. While I'm first to admit that I don't have the best attention span in the world, but 5 sentences per page and a 30-second video? or rather it was an hour long video chopped into 30-second segments to go with the 5-sentence sets. It seems more like a test for ADD! (not that I would know what one of those is like....):rolleyes:

oh, & my uncle still refuses to talk to me about anything dive related - stuffy old snot!

Change is hard for many! I know that all the agencies study what the retention and learning curves of their courses are! Their goal is to get more divers and make it safe and fun! Too many people want it to fail, because "They can't be right or safe"! But diving is a safer sport than it was when I learned because of the advances in technology! COMPUTERS! Hip hip hooray! Failure is now curred by a simple puck backup! This covers 99% of all Rec diving!

I do understand your Uncles reluctance! But I would have rather seen you using your time Diving than waiting to!

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Originally Posted by Papa Bear

Change is hard for many! I know that all the agencies study what the retention and learning curves of their courses are!

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How is that you came to "know" this?

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Originally Posted by Papa Bear

Their goal is to get more divers and make it safe and fun!

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In my experience their goal is to make money any way that they can, they have no interest in retention, only in quick certification and immediate sales. The only concerted interest that the agencies showed in safety was back in the late 1970s when there was an alarming increase in training fatalities.

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Originally Posted by Papa Bear

But diving is a safer sport than it was when I learned because of the advances in technology! COMPUTERS! Hip hip hooray! Failure is now curred by a simple puck backup! This covers 99% of all Rec diving!

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Computers do not make anything less risky, all the are is an alternate way to display gas saturation information, a cartoon of a table if you will. People still use tables today, and proper use of table is no more likely to result in DCS than is proper use of computers.

Thalassamania: thanks! the link was interesting.

PADI should've made the CD version more flexible, more interactive: video in its entirety w/ chapters bookmarked, so you could just click when you were ready to view it. It was hard to jump chapters or even scroll back to refer to something you read, b/c it was in 5 sentence paragraphs. The way they had that CD version set up, would make one have repetitive stress syndrome in their hand from clicking the mouse and develop ADD if they didn't have it already. :p Plus, I still think I got the ESL version :p I hope the new eLearning version is much improved.

PB: My uncle is a water-Nazi. He taught us swimming by tossing us off the end of a pier into the sea & not during good weather! :eek: I think I was 7 or 8 when he would make us swim out to the platform and back during the winter months, then again, towing a rubber jug behind us. He was offended our moms moved us to pool classes because he thought they were inferior & would "ruin" us. :o Although he admits now that we all turned out "okay" in the water, he's still stubborn about that friend that ended up getting a full Ivy League Swim Scholarship & made it to the Olympic team. :D I guess once a stubborn snot, always a stubborn snot. :rolleyes:

I swam a bit and my Daughter Lettered all four years, she swam with the Matadors one summer! They have produced more Olympic swimmers than any US club in history! And it sounds like you turned out just fine! He should be proud! But remember as a Navy diver everything he did was controlled and he had no freedom to sore over a wall! He was doing a job and had a grumpy demanding boss! Who probably hated diving and his job!;)

I know the course director at PADI and they love suggestions and are very open to modifying to make it better! If you would like to email them PM me and I will give you direct link to the top! It's about the numbers and increasing those numbers and it is a good model until someone comes up with a better one!

That being said it really is the instructor that makes the difference! If you find a good one it doesn't matter what agency he reps! Good is good! I like SDI's approach because of the reality of the Computer world! When your doing Video and Camera work the last thing on your mind is time at depth, the computer can be set to remind you with that pesky Beep! :eek:

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Originally Posted by Papa Bear

I swam a bit and my Daughter Lettered all four years, she swam with the Matadors one summer! They have produced more Olympic swimmers than any US club in history! ...

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I have it on good authority that the swim club that has produced the most Olympic Swimmers is Santa Clara Swim Club, here the list.

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Originally Posted by Papa Bear

I know the course director at PADI and they love suggestions and are very open to modifying to make it better! If you would like to email them PM me and I will give you direct link to the top! It's about the numbers and increasing those numbers and it is a good model until someone comes up with a better one!

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Similarly there is no "Course Director" at PADI, there are, I'm sure several people there with that certifcation, and several hundred more throughout the world. You want the top? Here's the contact: drew.richardson@ padi.com (he's the Chief Operating Officer and President.)

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Originally Posted by Papa Bear

That being said it really is the instructor that makes the difference! If you find a good one it doesn't matter what agency he reps! Good is good! I like SDI's approach because of the reality of the Computer world! When your doing Video and Camera work the last thing on your mind is time at depth, the computer can be set to remind you with that pesky Beep! :eek:

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Computer or no computer, that's may not be a recipe for a long and happy life. ;)

Swimming has always been a very relaxing and fun activity for me - almost meditative. I've never seen it as a competitive activity, although I highly respect those that can and do. :)

PB & Thalassamania: as for contacting the dude-in-charge at PADI re: the CD-course, I think that would be a moot point now as they have already moved on to the eLearning curriculum - that is, unless it's the exact same thing on a different format. I'm not an instructor and have no access to the material so I'm hoping for future students' sake that it's not the same one I had. It really wasn't flexible in any way which was my main problem with it. Thanks guys for offering to give me the contact info for PADI. :)

Computers are cool, but they should really make them in cooler colours. Why all the black? :confused: Besides if you drop it, day-glow colours are easier to locate underwater.

It is The Mission Viejo Nadadores no body comes close!
In 1968 when the Nadadores team was formed, it was comprised of 25 swimmers who competed in local events. In 1974, the Nadadores women won their first National Championship title. Since that time, the Nadadores have won 47 National Team Championships, 12 Olympic Gold Medals, 7 Olympic Silver Medals, 1 Olympic Bronze Medal, 5 Individual World Championship titles and 148 individual National Championships. The Nadadores have broken 91 American Records, 22 World Records and have produced more than 135 All-Americans. In 1992 ownership of the Nadadores passed from the Mission Viejo Company to the Mission Viejo Nadadores Foundation which oversees both the team’s swim and dive programs. The foundation is run by volunteer parents who dedicate hundreds of hours on a monthly basis to the sports of swimming and diving."

Just the facts!

One of the great things about the Nadadores is our tradition of excellence. Often times I’ll cross paths with some in the sports world who talk about the amazing Nadadores as though it was something that happened long, long ago. Sure the accomplishments of athletes such as Brian Goodell, Shirley Babishoff and others from the early days of our team are amazing – even by today’s standards. However, what is happening right here, right now is also extremely noteworthy.

Did you know?
This past weekend members of our Olympic group (teammates of every Nadador who walks on deck everyday) competed at the USA Grand Prix in Columbia Missouri. This was the first long course meet in the Grand Prix series as well as the first major U.S. long course meet of the season. When we looked at the psych sheets for the meet we knew it would be a blazing meet – after all, everybody’s chasing the Olympic dream. Of course, all the current super stars were there: Phelps, Hoff, Peisol, Torres (a former Nadador, and now a 40 year old mother, who’s still at the top of her game in the sprint events), Zeigler and Vendt. Over the course of the weekend there would be several US open records eclipsed and THREE WORLD RECORDS established. But Coach Rose and his crew of world class talent didn’t go to just swim in the meet – they were there to compete.

And boy did they put up some competition. World University Games double gold medalist and record holder, Chad La Tourette posted one of the most amazing swims in the 1500 grabbing the silver medal in an amazing 15:03 (a time that would have secured him a spot on the 2004 Olympic team). La Tourette also swam lifetime bests in the 400 free, the 200 free 400IM and the 100 back. Pan American Gold Medalist (and famed 10&u Assistant Coach) Fran Crippen was 3rd in the 1500 in a lifetime best of 15:20. Crippen also posted lifetime best in the 200 Free, and the 400IM. Not to be left out of the mix, Denny Collum continued his charge in lowering his personal best in 400 Free, 200 Free, 200 Fly and the 400IM. Charlie Rimkus was also right on track with a best time, and Olympic Trials qualifying time, in the 400IM. Rimkus, rounded out his portfolio of swims with lifetime bests in the 200 Fly, 200 Free and 200IM.

The Nadador women also had their share of success. Pan American Gold Medalist, Chloe Sutton was 2nd in the 800 behind and 4th in 400 free. Micha Burden, recovering from a broken rib sustained at last month’s open water world cup in Brasil posted amazing swims in both the 800 and 400 freestyle events.

Our Nadadores are looking awesome at this point of the Olympic year. Coach Rose is right on track to continue the streak of placing a Nadador on every Olympic Team since 1972.

But did you also know?
These amazing accomplishments do set us apart as on the world’s best swim clubs – but it’s the tradition our athletes experience everyday that makes us one of a kind.

I was recently talking with a former age group team mate who was on the ’92 Olympic team. He asked me about what it’s like to work for the Nadadores (a program we both admired when we were age groupers). I told him about the excitement of watching world class athletes train right outside my office, but this was merely a small part of what makes us great – and keeps me motivated. I went on to explain the amazement I feel in watching young swimmers make their way to the teaching pool for a swim lesson or a novice practice while Coach Rose pushes his group toward new standards and how this literally charges my afternoon energy levels. Moreover, I spoke of the enthusiasm I feel when I see wide eyes of Coach Siga’s 8&u swimmers as she explains technique while the young Nadadores watch their elite teammates. Sharing the excitement I see on Coach Fran’s face as he musters up incredible energy for his 10 & u swimmers (I never lose sight of the fact he does this after over 4 grueling hours in the water) makes me proud to be a Nadador.

As I shared these examples of greatness my friend reminded me how special this is for us here at the Nadadores. Sometimes it’s easy to forget that most age group swimmers are lucky to see their swim idols once a month in the pages of “Swimming World”. But the young Nadadores get to see Olympic greatness nearly every day. It’s easy to take our good fortune for granted. The fact that all our athletes are led by one of the country’s most professional and experienced coaching staffs is a privilege. The fact our athletes and coaches have access to the latest swim videos is unique (most swimmers age group swimmers in the United States see elite racing during the Olympic years). The fact that our athletes have access to video analysis and other sophisticated training devices is special. I could go on and on about what makes the Nadadores like no other club – but it boils down to the contributions of each and every swimmer, coach, parent, and supporter. Coach Rose is quick to remind his athletes that their success is a result of not just their hard work – but it also comes from the support they receive all of their nearly 800 fellow teammates.

As we charge forward in our 40th year of excellence let us never forget the foundation on which we’re built. It’s a foundation set by Coach Schubert (USA Swimming’s current National Team Director) and carried on by the amazing staff led by Coach Rose. It’s family of swimmers, parents, coaches and supporters that will continue to propel us as the Nadadores continue to push the envelope in establishing the gold standard of swim clubs.
Every day may not be easy, but it’s always a great day to be a Nadador. Here’s to YOU!

So, um, does anyone have anything to say about the new PADI OW Manuals/courses (eLearning, book, videos etc)? ;) :p ;)

Are the tables going the way of the slide rule to be replaced by this calculator? :confused:

I think they are great and a new tool that will hopefully bring more divers into the fold! As all new things it will take some fine tuning, but it is a step into the future! I like the idea of internet training look how much we are here!

Any additional posts with personal attacks of members here in this thread will be immediately deleted.

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Originally Posted by Papa Bear

I like the idea of internet training look how much we are here!

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Well said Papa Bear.
I for one have learnt a few good and interesting dive-related things on here.

As a friend of mine, was saying just the other night, "It is so cool that people from all over the world are right on my computer"! Our world is shrinking and yet expanding all at the same time! Computers allow us to go and do things we never thought of a few years back and someone on the other side of the world can know about it and share it with you with "This Tool"! I feel we will see much more education being done this way! At $5.00 per gallon I can watch a web cast or take test and not burn any fuel to get to the LDS! It will be be hard for some who will not change easily, but for those who can, I see a whole new industry and opportunities!

I just looked at it and at first glance it covers the basics! That's what it is supposed to do! Also many people in warm water places have limited time and need a simplified course that covers safety and minimum standards and it seems to foot the bill! The most important part, It is covered, is the instructor! Lets face it a good instructor can teach the basics that will keep you from dying in 30 minutes or less! Does this make you a diver, NO, it is a start though! Diving is safe if you're comfortable in the water and have basic knowledge of Physics and your gear! This course covers this and as long as the instructors reinforce and practice the rules of safety it is a good start!