Mask Seal w/ Mustache

I've always sported a Mustache. I have done some snorkeling over the years and never had any problem clearing my mask.
But during our pool sessions I have noticed that I tend to constantly blow % air out my nose to keep pressure in my mask. Last class we had hoods on and the air escaping the corners of my mask was bubbling up and under the edge of my hood creating a bubble on top of my head!

My concern is that as I dive deeper mask squeeze will become an issue without the positive seal around my upper lip. My instructor has assured me stating that depth will actually help to create a more positive seal and prevent mask squeeze. I know (& see...Zero) others who sport 'staches' who are divers so, it has to be a non issue, right?

Dave

Aero,

I have a beard and mustache and understand your concern. No matter what you do, you will get a little bit of leakage where your mask tries to form a seal against your skin with the hair in between. It was only a concern for me when I first started diving with facial hair, but it only took a dive or two to understand it is no big deal. You can always clear your mask, as long as it is not pouring in.

One thing I have noticed is the masks with a purge valve really help to clear out that water and also prevent the air pocket inside your hood. I use an Ocean Master View 3 with a purge valve located at the bottom tip of the nose. Every few breaths, just blow out your nose and your mask will be clear. The bubbles come out right above the regulator so they will not get trapped behing your hood.

Hope this helps.

oh yea, I know of some guys that insist a coating of vasaline on your stash will also help, but that is beyond what I feel is necessary, plus it would mess up my dry suit seals!

Not an issue just something to deal with as necessary. If you are blowing into your mask you are counteracting the mask squeeze issue. The bigger issue is what kind of stash you have. Big bushy cookie dusters always seem to have a stray hair that want to break the seal, but neat and trim you can work with. My trick is to remove the reg, put my hand (mostly the thumb and forefinger at were it curves) to my face under the mask and "sqeegy" towards my chin to pull any wild hairs and then deal with any leaks as needed.

Also the mask itself. Some designs lend themselves more to being problematic with facial hair. My larger mask was a hassle like that I could rarely get a good seal, when I switched to a low profile mask I had considerably less leakage.

Like alot of things with scuba, it really NOT about who makes what, it is more about "What works for you"

I agree with the above. A mask with the purge valve in the nose helps a lot with the small amount of leakage. And as for the bubbles in the hood issue, you can take a hot soudering iron and burn a small hole in the top for the air to excape.

Depth should not be a problem.

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Originally Posted by Phlocker

And as for the bubbles in the hood issue, you can take a hot soudering iron and burn a small hole in the top for the air to excape.

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I forgot about that issue, because I have a vent built into my hood. It is a Henderson Hyperstrech, they come with a vent hole.

Had a 'tache and beard since way before i started diving, have never had an issue with it. I would have thought that any failure of the mask to seal properly would show up when you try the fit in the shop! Wouldn't it?:confused:

Thanks guys.

Fitting in the shop the 'stache' prevented a positive seal but I was still able to keep the mask on my face just by creating a vacuum with my nose. It hasn't been an issue save for my habit to exhale through my nose more than I see others doing. On the other hand, removal of my mask underwater didn't create any water in the nose issues like some of my classmates experienced :)

My instructor suggested taking a nail and heating it with a bic to make a hole in the top of my hood. I had a hard time submerging with all the air on top of my head until I turned over and let it out my face opening. My 'Buddy' was laughing so hard he had to surface!

I'm going to try the purge mask. The LDS has one that I can borrow for our next class. The instructor told us we would be performing our OW dives at Kinzu Dam in Warren PA Mid August. I just cant wait!!

I've had this 'stache' for so long I couldn't imagine shaving it off, but was contemplating doing so if I had to to dive...

Put a small hole in the top of your hood if it doesnt have one and breathe out through your nose all the time or whenever needed. Works for me.

Matt

The purge valve masks do seem to work for some, but I have known quite a few who ran into problems clearing due to the purge valve getting in their way. I just keep a small area trimmed right under my nose that allows my mask to seal perfectly. You would be surprised just how little bare skin you need to expose in order to facilitate the seal. Most hoods today have some sort of vent hole in the top, but not all work as efficiently as you would hope. As suggested, a hot nail or soldering iron can easily solve that problem.

This is probably going to seem like a really girlie response to a serious manly question...

Alternatively, you could shave of your 'tache?? :D

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Originally Posted by lottie

This is probably going to seem like a really girlie response to a serious manly question...

Alternatively, you could shave of your 'tache?? :D

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Oh the fun I could have with this one... But seriously, trimming a bit under the nose wouldn't hurt. Even as much as an 1/8 of an inch is usually would give enough surface area for a seal.

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Originally Posted by Daddy-h2O

Oh the fun I could have with this one... But seriously, trimming a bit under the nose wouldn't hurt. Even as much as an 1/8 of an inch is usually would give enough surface area for a seal.

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Obviously I would like to avoid having to shave it. Its been there 36 years and I've grown kinda fond of it. But I did consider it if I had to.

But seeing others who have mustache's I thought I would ask the question.

It hasnt been an issue for me as of yet but I've only experienced snorkeling up until now. I was unclear what issues I might find at depth.
I'll keep what I have through our ow test and see how it goes. I don't think it is going to be an issue with the assurances I have here. Thanks!

Dave

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Originally Posted by Daddy-h2O

Oh the fun I could have with this one... But seriously, trimming a bit under the nose wouldn't hurt. Even as much as an 1/8 of an inch is usually would give enough surface area for a seal.

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NEVER SHAVE!

If it is that bad, you just have to break down and get the full face mask.

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Originally Posted by acelockco

NEVER SHAVE!

If it is that bad, you just have to break down and get the full face mask.

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Not shave it off trim it back. Unless you want that married Amish look

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Originally Posted by Daddy-h2O

Not shave it off trim it back. Unless you want that married Amish look

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Dude, I am telling you it should be no problem. Don't shave anything. If you are cool in a pool or whatever, there will be no problem at depth. You will be so busy enjoying the dive you won't even think about it. Again the purge will make clearing your mask just happen so go for that.

And I don't even think the Amish really want to look like that!!!:eek:

ROFL@Ace & DaddyH2O...You two are soo funny!!

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Originally Posted by aerospot

Obviously I would like to avoid having to shave it. Its been there 36 years and I've grown kinda fond of it. But I did consider it if I had to.

But seeing others who have mustache's I thought I would ask the question.

It hasnt been an issue for me as of yet but I've only experienced snorkeling up until now. I was unclear what issues I might find at depth.
I'll keep what I have through our ow test and see how it goes. I don't think it is going to be an issue with the assurances I have here. Thanks!

Dave

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I have had a mustache for as long as hair has been framing my mug. I initially had issues with leakage around the nasal area. I trimmed a small area under the nose......WhaLah!!! no more leakage. Looks better, last long time!

A Cessi Big Eyes mask worked for me with no trimming or anything.

Matt

Where are all the Instructors on this one? Think folks ever hear of Archimedes? Unless the mask leaks from the top or your upside down how is the water going to get in even if it had a hole at the bottom! The vast majority of mask leaks are because of wrinkles or hair that prevents a good seal at the TOP of the mask allowing air to escape and be displaced by water coming from any non-sealed area. But if you hold the air in the water can't come in! Look at your buddy next time and you will see small bubbles coming from the top. So a Beard or Mustache has very little to do with it. Stop smiling or laughing and get a mask with a good skirt and fit and you will then have to let a little in once in a while to swish!

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Originally Posted by Papa Bear

Where are all the Instructors on this one? Think folks ever hear of Archimedes? Unless the mask leaks from the top or your upside down how is the water going to get in even if it had a hole at the bottom!

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Good poing Papa Bear, but I do have one thing to say about that. On land, the area near your mustache is at the bottom but as a diver you should know in the water that area is not necessarly the bottom. Maybe for beginer divers who for many reasons seem to have their head up high with their fins down low this could be true.

For the rest of us that dive in a horizontal position the glass of our mask becomes the bottom and the seal is on top, so water can leak in near the mustache.

Stop dragging your fins in the sand and get horizontal.

I would tend to disagree (RESPECTFULLY) to a point. I would agree that smiling, wrinkles, and the vast majority of leaks are at the top. But I have had leaking problems at the 'stash. It tickles a little. The water pressure overcomes the internal pressure in the mask and you have a leak that can come from anywhere, that is why when you have a good seal you will experiance a mask squeeze and need to breath out the nose a little to equalize the internal pressure with the ambiant pressure.

I have posted before that on some occasion I only have to remove my reg, and swipe my hand downwards from the nose pocket to remove any stray long hairs.

I think you make a valid point, I also think that the mask itself maybe part of the problem. The fit in the shop may not be the same once you hit the water. (just a thought)

My only point is if you take a cup into the water upside down it won't fill with water! Diving bell etc! It will compress the air the deeper you go, but if you didn't equalize with you nose your eyes would pop out! The only way for water to come in is air to leak out! My face hair has nothing to do with it sense it is under my mask. It is about displacement and fit, but not face hair. Unless you have Captain Kangaroo eye brows!

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Originally Posted by acelockco

Good poing Papa Bear, but I do have one thing to say about that. On land, the area near your mustache is at the bottom but as a diver you should know in the water that area is not necessarly the bottom. Maybe for beginer divers who for many reasons seem to have their head up high with their fins down low this could be true.

For the rest of us that dive in a horizontal position the glass of our mask becomes the bottom and the seal is on top, so water can leak in near the mustache.

Stop dragging your fins in the sand and get horizontal.

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Well maybe because I always have a camera my face plate, unless I am upside down, faces where I am going. It keeps me from running into thing as well you should try it!

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Originally Posted by Papa Bear

My only point is if you take a cup into the water upside down it won't fill with water! Diving bell etc! It will compress the air the deeper you go, but if you didn't equalize with you nose your eyes would pop out! The only way for water to come in is air to leak out! My face hair has nothing to do with it sense it is under my mask. It is about displacement and fit, but not face hair. Unless you have Captain Kangaroo eye brows!

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Good for you! Personally, I like to look around a bit while under water which means I am taking that cup and turning it all sorts of ways under water (try this with your diving bell cup and you will see that even a small shift will allow water in.) The only way to do this without having to devote an inordinate amount of time to mask clearing is to ensure I have a good seal along the entire perimeter of the seal. If that means shaving a thin line across the top of my moustache, then so be it. If your method works for you, more power to you.

Point is I have never had a problem! Nothing wrong with a little water, my point is people use the Mustache excess when it is not. No one looks around more than me? But if it makes you all happy to think this is the cause be my guest and wax those bad boys up, trim them up, or cut them off! But you mask will still leak from the top first! :p

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Originally Posted by Papa Bear

No one looks around more than me

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Wow, I am really impressed. Did you figure this out the same way you figured out sharks like pink fins?

Your new title:

The King Of Deductive Reasoning.

Are you picking on my mother again? thats why I can't dive with people who wear pink! You insensitivity is blatant at best and picking on a divers dead mother! WOW! Now that's cuts deep!:eek:

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... others who sport 'staches' who are divers so, it has to be a non issue, right?

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Yah, I always snort some air out, as already mentioned several times, a vent in the hood does the trick.
For drysuits you can get a little "button valve" to install that'll let air out but not water in.

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This is probably going to seem like a really girlie response to a serious manly question...

Alternatively, you could shave of your 'stach??

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SACRILEGE!!! :eek:
We do have to cut you some slack though, for obvious reasons. ;)
The proverbial neighborhood "cat lady" would sooner part with her furball critters than most guys would want to shave their 'staches.
Besides, some of us are just so homely that we're doing everybody a favor by covering out faces a bit. :D

Oh yah, there are a couple masks that are better at sealing than others.
More on that later though.

Double post removed, quick reply didn't work right.

I think the type of wiskers you have is a factor too.

I for one have pretty stiff wiskers. If I clip it short then the mask gets held off my lip and will not seal. I did pick up this stuff that looks like chap stick you put a little on and it will seal no problem. DON"T use petrolium jelly though the mask material doesn't like it.

The working solution I have now... My wiskers also grow up pretty close to my nose. So I shave them back a little (the 1/8" mentioned by the other guy) and it doesn't have a problem. I just need to re-shave at the nose each day I dive or the wiskers hold the mask off (fast growing too).

It pretty much fills in again within a week after the dive so Its no big deal to me. It might look odd to you at first but some people's hair starts lower then others anyhow... Probably why they have enough skin to make seal.

All things being equal I get more leaking from a smile. Its the constant seepage from wiskers that gets anoying. You DO have to keep positive pressure on the mask. That will probably help you in diving though.

Though people do look at you funny if you get used to just snorting a bit and the mask makes a audible trumpet sound under water..lol

As far as diving angle... If I'm traveling I'm slightly head down. If I'm exploring I could be vertical head down or on my back even.

Nothing looks as cool as seeing up as your floating along... As long as you pay attention and don't hit something...lol

Isn't that a underwater photographer ideal position too, down looking up at the subject?

I know my mask that does fit me well on both inside and outside skirt. I know were It leaks from... Its not hair or forhead wrinkles. Its around the bottom of the nose. Its even worse if I'm floating on my back and I can see the water cross the mask lense.

We are all a little diffent from hair to skin to bone shape... So find the best seal in a mask you can and then figure out how to work with it.

Wow! Never thought this thread would go so far...
All comments and suggestions (except shaving) are warmly accepted with my thanks! I have concluded a couple things that I believe will help me with concerns over my 'stache'. Mine is quite 'wiry' and grows close to my nostrals. I've taken to tweezing as opposed to shaving a line under my nose. Gradually mind you, not all at once but there is now a nice smooth area of skin to help with the seal, and it doesnt grow back.
Second is my mask. I'm trying some different masks and noticing a better fit with some over the one I had been diving with. A new mask is in my near future...
My main thought was of mask sqeeze. I have yet to go deeper than 25' but noticed even there I cannot maintain positive pressure without it seeping out through my stache. Is mask squeeze at deeper depths an issue due to this factor?
Shaving is out of the question as someone elluded to my need to disguise a rather homely face. I did shave it some years ago and a co-worker advised me to "do yourself a favor and grow it back"!!:confused: I took his advice, obviously...
We are doing some advanced diving this weekend and I'll see how things go. I'm going to borrow another mask from the shop to try. Mine has a clear skirt and I'm wanting one in black. It's a macho thing...
Dave

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Originally Posted by aerospot

Wow! Never thought this thread would go so far...
All comments and suggestions (except shaving) are warmly accepted with my thanks! I have concluded a couple things that I believe will help me with concerns over my 'stache'. Mine is quite 'wiry' and grows close to my nostrals. I've taken to tweezing as opposed to shaving a line under my nose. Gradually mind you, not all at once but there is now a nice smooth area of skin to help with the seal, and it doesnt grow back.
Second is my mask. I'm trying some different masks and noticing a better fit with some over the one I had been diving with. A new mask is in my near future...
My main thought was of mask sqeeze. I have yet to go deeper than 25' but noticed even there I cannot maintain positive pressure without it seeping out through my stache. Is mask squeeze at deeper depths an issue due to this factor?
Shaving is out of the question as someone elluded to my need to disguise a rather homely face. I did shave it some years ago and a co-worker advised me to "do yourself a favor and grow it back"!!:confused: I took his advice, obviously...
We are doing some advanced diving this weekend and I'll see how things go. I'm going to borrow another mask from the shop to try. Mine has a clear skirt and I'm wanting one in black. It's a macho thing...
Dave

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What works for you is the important thing, but just remember that you are more of a man than I am (I'll stick to shaving a thin line myself) :p

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Originally Posted by aerospot

Wow! Never thought this thread would go so far...


All comments and suggestions (except shaving) are warmly accepted with my
My main thought was of mask sqeeze. I have yet to go deeper than 25' but noticed even there I cannot maintain positive pressure without it seeping out through my stache. Is mask squeeze at deeper depths an issue due to this factor?

Dave

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Dave,

Reference your textbook for mask squeeze. You will find that it is differential pressure between the air space INSIDE the mask, and the increased ambient pressure surrounding the external surface of the mask that constitutes a squeeze. To equalize the pressure, eliminating the squeeze, is simply blow through your nose. The increased air pressure within that air space will eliminate that squeeze. A good indication of a mask squeeze, is the bruising around the eyes subsequent to the dive. It is not very painful, but looks absolutely awful!! If this occurs make sure that the "story" is fifteen guys jumped you in a bar and they are the worse for the experience. (or just say the wife looks worse! :eek: )

A proper fitting mask is the single most important piece of equipment, after the cranial appendage that it surrounds. A proper fitting mask will remain in position on your face, after a slight inhalation through your nose (creating a slight vacuum). The mask should not equalize (heard that word before?) and then fall off your face. It should retain that vacuum for a good 30 seconds. Any mask that does not do this is not right for you.