PADI Direction

PADI are often criticised for making diving available to the masses, and many think that this sport should be restricted to club members, and especially those with beards and Arran pullovers.
Well PADI have now produced eLearning … do your open water on-line
https://www.padi.com/padi/elearning/covers.htm

What a great move, there must be loads of people out there who want to be able to have a PADI badge on their suitcase, or impress their friends by wearing a PADI polo shirt or baseball cap and look macho in the local bar.

People will soon no longer need to get wet at all, and let’s be honest there must be many potential customers (sorry I meant divers) out there who are put off diving only by the thought of going underwater.

They will soon be able to become divers without getting wet – which must be seen as a logical development of PADI specialities, following on from the recent “PADI Full Face Mask Speciality”, which everybody was asking for, it was so much more of a priority than other courses.

Having already been able to obtain the coveted Advanced accolade by such courses as land based “equipment specialist”, we eagerly look forward to the 2 day “putting your fins on” speciality, and soon to follow “advanced dive bag packing”

There will future benefits as PADI adopts more technology, by the successful partnering with software games industry we shall soon see the Virtual Diver and Advanced Virtual Diver courses.
Some feel that the Advanced Virtual Diver may be too onerous in expecting participants to undertake a total of 5 extra 30min long virtual dives, may be too much, with the possible risk of MCS (monitor concentration syndrome)

Instructors will benefit by being able to sell all these extra courses –
Virtual Dive Master and Master Scuba Divert Virtual Trainer will be among the first.
With the options to be able to increase the income potential if they add the Virtual Diver – LapTop speciality to the standard desk top version.

There will be PADI junior VD, and PADI bubblemaker VD and due to increased capability of ultrasound, parents will be able to get their expected through the pre-natal VD course on-line.

PADI … you know it makes sense

Don't take this the wrong way, but I can't tell whether part of what you said is sarcasm (at its best, of course - I'm renowned for my sarcastic sense of humour!)

I know know how this figures into the broad schema of the OW, but with the elearning part - doesn't that take the fun out of why you wanted to go diving in the first place ... to get wet????

Lottie :)

The all mighty $ rears it's ugly head.

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Originally Posted by lottie

Don't take this the wrong way, but I can't tell whether part of what you said is sarcasm (at its best, of course - I'm renowned for my sarcastic sense of humour!)

I know know how this figures into the broad schema of the OW, but with the elearning part - doesn't that take the fun out of why you wanted to go diving in the first place ... to get wet????

Lottie :)

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Lottie, don't believe what Argonaut says about getting certified without getting wet! I'm not a huge fan of the e-learning trend because I think we instructors give students a bit more when we explain the materials in our own words in a face-to-face setting, but in fact the e-learning model only takes the place of the classroom stuff--the powerpoint lectures, the quizzes, etc.

The part where the dive student gets wet stays the same.

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Originally Posted by acelockco

The all mighty $ rears it's ugly head.

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Why do you say that? Would you expect your local university or college to offer free courses just because they're online? (And do you think your own paycheck is ugly or a thing of beauty?)

Distance education via the internet has been going on for quite some time, and scuba is just now making an entry into that mode of learning. It's not just PADI either. In fact, I think SDI is a bit ahead of the rest.

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Originally Posted by Argonaut

PADI are often criticised for making diving available to the masses, and many think that this sport should be restricted to club members, and especially those with beards and Arran pullovers.
Well PADI have now produced eLearning … do your open water on-line
https://www.padi.com/padi/elearning/covers.htm

What a great move, there must be loads of people out there who want to be able to have a PADI badge on their suitcase, or impress their friends by wearing a PADI polo shirt or baseball cap and look macho in the local bar.

People will soon no longer need to get wet at all, and let’s be honest there must be many potential customers (sorry I meant divers) out there who are put off diving only by the thought of going underwater.

They will soon be able to become divers without getting wet – which must be seen as a logical development of PADI specialities, following on from the recent “PADI Full Face Mask Speciality”, which everybody was asking for, it was so much more of a priority than other courses.

Having already been able to obtain the coveted Advanced accolade by such courses as land based “equipment specialist”, we eagerly look forward to the 2 day “putting your fins on” speciality, and soon to follow “advanced dive bag packing”

There will future benefits as PADI adopts more technology, by the successful partnering with software games industry we shall soon see the Virtual Diver and Advanced Virtual Diver courses.
Some feel that the Advanced Virtual Diver may be too onerous in expecting participants to undertake a total of 5 extra 30min long virtual dives, may be too much, with the possible risk of MCS (monitor concentration syndrome)

Instructors will benefit by being able to sell all these extra courses –
Virtual Dive Master and Master Scuba Divert Virtual Trainer will be among the first.
With the options to be able to increase the income potential if they add the Virtual Diver – LapTop speciality to the standard desk top version.

There will be PADI junior VD, and PADI bubblemaker VD and due to increased capability of ultrasound, parents will be able to get their expected through the pre-natal VD course on-line.

PADI … you know it makes sense

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Your first posting is this rant..... you sound like a troll to me!

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Originally Posted by Quero

Why do you say that? Would you expect your local university or college to offer free courses just because they're online? (And do you think your own paycheck is ugly or a thing of beauty?)

Distance education via the internet has been going on for quite some time, and scuba is just now making an entry into that mode of learning. It's not just PADI either. In fact, I think SDI is a bit ahead of the rest.

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Well, the bottom line is $ because they now want to cut out the middle man (instructor). They want everyone to get their online training. I feel that the training is very lacking to begin with, and this only makes it worse in my opinion. It is not about the course being free at all, but more about dive instructors not getting paid! They spent a lot of their hard earned money to become scuba instructors, to have the carpet pulled out from under them.

As far as my paycheck, I work for myself and my paycheck is good as the money I make came from helping others.
It is nothing against PADI in anyway, it is just showing how the world is. I miss the good old days when you would learn from your teacher, not the book and a video or the internet.

I guess Queros feather's got ruffled...too bad

OW is already a joke because even the non swimmer can become certified so putting it on the net will make it just that much better:)

Yea more divers that have no clue what they are doing:) :)

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Originally Posted by Quero

Your first posting is this rant..... you sound like a troll to me!

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It's called humour .... :)

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Originally Posted by hbh2oguard

I guess Queros feather's got ruffled...too bad

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Not really a case of ruffled feathers. I just have precious little patience for hyperbole and sweeping statements spouted by people who set themselves up as speaking with authority when they actually have the facts wrong. (I've been told by the OP that it's called "humour" and I guess it is pretty funny to see him make himself look like a git. ROFL)

As I said, I'm not a huge fan of e-learning (probably because I have a personal preference to do my own learning in a face-to-face setting), and I agree that it can hurt independent instructors or those who (like me) work for schools that are not PADI shops and don't qualify for e-learning. But OTOH I can see that scuba instruction, like all other coursework, is moving in that direction. If it's possible to do some of the work for an MBA online, why not scuba? The information that students need to assimilate isn't *that* complicated.

Actually, some of my students come to me as referrals, and I'd just as soon have them do the knowledge development via e-learning before they show up here in Thailand as have them search around for a shop in their town to do face-to-face classroom work with (and possibly simply sit through hours of powerpoint lectures anyway).

I'll still get a chance to talk things over with my e-learning referral students before it's time to get in the water, because, in fact, e-learning does NOT mean (as the OP asserted) that a diver can get certified without even getting wet.

Anyway, Rick, welcome to the board, and I hope your subsequent postings actually contribute to discussions rather than just trying to stir things up.

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Originally Posted by Quero

Not really a case of ruffled feathers. I just have precious little patience for hyperbole and sweeping statements spouted by people who set themselves up as speaking with authority when they actually have the facts wrong. (I've been told by the OP that it's called "humour" and I guess it is pretty funny to see him make himself look like a git. ROFL
.....

and I hope your subsequent postings actually contribute to discussions rather than just trying to stir things up.

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# I don't see myself as having been made a git at all.

# Also I did not at any time mention that I was speaking with authority

" I just have precious little patience for hyperbole and sweeping statements "

My post was to mention a genuine PADI direction, in a light hearted way, and it seems it was seen that way by others.

I am a PADI certified diver, and have also certified under the club system with BSAC (in 1974), so I have seen both types of Diver eduction ... the long detailed, but low cost non-profit making club method, and the pure business approach of PADI.
Having been invloved with both - I am happy to pass comments - but as a diver, not as someone who as you say "set themselves up as speaking with authority"

In my post the only facts I quoted are correct ... that PADI offer e-learning, and teh full face mask speciality, the rest was jest.

I received an email yesterday prompting me that I had joined the forum, but never made a post, and invited me to do so.
I did, and it seems I am castigated for my first post - should I have just meekly paid homage to somebody first ?

I understood that unmoderated forums were places for people to discuss what they wanted to, (diving related) and readers could choose to read or ignore.

I dive for fun, not for income, and I take part in various forums for fun & information exchange. (and sometimes education), and banter.
Other forums welcome such people ... if this forum is only for 'serious exchanges' .. then I don't belong here and I'll happily delete my subscription.

Don't let Quero scare you off.

We all must remember this is an forum where everyone is invited to state their opinion. It does not matter if you are the CEO of PADI or someone that has never gone diving before. There is no prereq. for this forum, and you don't even need to be a certified diver which is a great thing. We are here because we love diving, love to talk about it, love to think about it and love to discuss it.

There are always going to be differences of opinion here, and even a little poke or prod here or there is cool. Just never take it personally! We are all dive buddys and really should look out for each other. Maybe if we are lucky our relationships here will allow some of us to actually dive together.

Remember it is our differences of opinion that allow us to learn from each other. Personally I feel we have a great group here. I value all of your opinions and welcome you all to come dive in my local dive spot any time.

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Originally Posted by Argonaut

I understood that unmoderated forums were places for people to discuss what they wanted to, (diving related) and readers could choose to read or ignore.

I dive for fun, not for income, and I take part in various forums for fun & information exchange. (and sometimes education), and banter.
Other forums welcome such people ... if this forum is only for 'serious exchanges' .. then I don't belong here and I'll happily delete my subscription.

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I also belong to a lot of scuba discusion lists, and only one of them is unmoderated: (I have deleted the URL because of friction between that site and this one--Q) Maybe you should check it out?
On all of the others, without exception, agency bashing considered poor form.

Anyway, I'm not a mod. I just call it like I see it. You didn't put your post in the "jokes" or "chat" forum of this board, but rather in a "basic scuba" training forum. I don't know about you, but I take training seriously, and I take jokes in the spirit they are offered. Your post was an agency bash, no matter how you frame it.

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Originally Posted by Quero

On all of the others, without exception, agency bashing considered poor form.

.

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So having an opinion on an agency is bashing?

Well I don't think so!

I also believe that it is only considered poor form in your mind. Bottome line is Argonaut told it like it is and added his/her sarcasm. 100% allowed.

Considering you are in instructor, you should be even more concerned as in a few years you may be out of a job.

Oh yea' you are NOT a mod like you said, so your 'rules' only apply to you.

oops. managed a double post somehow

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Originally Posted by acelockco

So having an opinion on an agency is bashing?

Well I don't think so!

I also believe that it is only considered poor form in your mind. Bottome line is Argonaut told it like it is and added his/her sarcasm. 100% allowed.

Considering you are in instructor, you should be even more concerned as in a few years you may be out of a job.

Oh yea' you are NOT a mod like you said, so your 'rules' only apply to you.

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<sigh>
No, having an opinion is not bashing. If Rick (the OP) had said that there was an unfortunate (in his opinion) trend towards e-learning in scuba, giving one or two agencies as examples, and laying his reasons out, that would be one thing. But Rick blatantly bashed just one agency, mentioning it by name many more than a handful of times. Here's a link to a discussion on the BSAC board (which I belong to) that follows a model of reasoned discussion with many people on both sides of the issue. It's a pleasure to read PADI eLearning - BSAC Scuba Diving Forums

Yes, PADI (among other agencies) is introducing e-learning. Yes, many are uncomfortable with the idea of e-learning. As for me, I'm taking a wait-and-see position before jumping on a soap box. Did you know, for example, that SDI has just launched an e-learning version of underwater navigation? I reserve judgment until I've seen the course, but I do know that even after walking patterns on land students struggle with their headings when they have a tide or a current pushing them off course underwater, and I know that online training will have to work hand in hand with in-water training to help students get a real handle on nav. OTOH, maybe SDI's software throws challenges like that into it--like in a video game ;) It might be brilliant or it might be a disaster.

Saying that scuba instructors will be out of work before long because of e-learning sounds just like what people said when computer technology first started showing up in school classrooms. Oh! Teachers are being replaced! It was alarmist at the time, and it turned out to be soapboxing at its best. Over the past 15-20 years classroom teachers have embraced CAI (computer assisted instruction) and have made it one more tool in their repertoire of teaching techniques. I expect the same to be true of scuba instruction down the road. We instructors will not be replaced by technology; technology will simply make our jobs easier.

And no, it's not just in my mind. I can't figure out where the TOS resides on this site, but, quoting from DiveChick (list moderator) in relation to DIR bashing,

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...no troll zone. If someone wants to rant about DIR or anything for that matter, then they can do so in the Rants, Meltdowns and Beefs Forum within the guidelines of being civil, as all good ideas can withstand the test of challenge...

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Bottom line: Rick engaged in agency bashing. If I wanted to read that sort of "sarcasm" I'd go to the Rants forum of this board. Agency bashing just reflects badly on the basher.

Whatever....

You are not going to change my mind and I am not going to change yours. I believe the post was fine.

;)

I think the original post was RIGHT ON!!! I totally agree that basic diving has been dumbed down to the point that many divers are just plain dangerous.

This move to e-learning is carrying this trend too dang far IMHO. It will be deadly to the LDS. And, who is going to monitor the "wet" sessions these people will, HOPEFULLY, be required to participate in.


ARGONAUT, I found your post extremely humorous (still pounding the desk laughing). I also found it hit, in a fun way, a seriously horrible direction of the dive certification industry. It would figure that PADI would initiate it. Much that I personally think has gone bad with the dive industry was started by them for the almighty $$$.

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Originally Posted by allisonfinch

;)



ARGONAUT, I found your post extremely humorous (still pounding the desk laughing). I also found it hit, in a fun way, a seriously horrible direction of the dive certification industry. It would figure that PADI would initiate it. Much that I personally think has gone bad with the dive industry was started by them for the almighty $$$.

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Exactly the way the post was intended ... glad you took it the way it was meant, and understood the humour.

I guess some just can't take the truth even if there is a little humor tossed in

did someone mentioned Virtual Diving?

here a sample of what is coming: http://www.divenav.com/vDive/video.html

By the way ... what is wrong with the $$$?

I_AM

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Originally Posted by I_AM

did someone mentioned Virtual Diving?

here a sample of what is coming: http://www.divenav.com/vDive/video.html


I_AM

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The Virtual Diving Simulator is now available online at www.ediving.us

You can use it to virtual dive REAL places ... we have multiple dive sites in California and are adding more worldwide

Regards,

DiveNav Team
www.ediving.us
www.divenav.com

Is it free? If not how much does it cost? Looks interesting.