Pony Bottle and Octopus?

I would like some opinions on this one. I just purchased a 19 cubic foot pony bottle, bracket and regulator w/micro pressure gauge. My question is if I have the pony bottle, do I also still need to have my octopus on my main regulator? What are the advantages or disadvantages of having or not having the octopus?

My thought is the octopus is not very useful to begin with except for your buddy. Most regulator failures would also cause the octopus to be useless. Out of air situations make it useless again. I feel if I have a complete redundant air system then that should be sufficient. If a buddy ever needed to share air, they could always go for the pony regulator or if they grabbed mine (that is what I would expect) I could use the pony. I just think it is silly to have extra things hanging off of my BC that I don't need.

I agree the octopus is a little much. I dive with a spare air and never dive with an octopus except that I have one buit into my bcd inflator. So you can have an octopus that takes up no extra space and it's one less hose.

19cf isnt mush air at all. As for the spare air ever used it in anger at depth? I would run an occy for sure or at least some alternate air source from your main tank.

Matt

I think 19cf is plenty for a backup. Even at 99 feet, and assuming a SAC rate of 1 (which is high) I would still get 4 minutes of air AT DEPTH. That is plenty of time to find my way safely to the surface. And of course as I get toward the surface my air consumption will be less giving me more time. I am not doing any decompression diving or anything like that. When I do decide to do that I will use doubles with the pony as a back up.

Rather than answers (initially), I have questions. What type of diving are you doing? What type of diving do you intend to get into, if at all? What diving do you see yourself doing, long-term?

First, I will address the "Spare Air" bottle. The size of these units precludes anyone from using them as anything other than a prop. For those that have them, when was the last time you used them at depth? A 3 or 6 cu.ft. bottle and a depth of 66 ft. and a SAC rate of 1 (remember these are emergency use, so breathing rate is severely elevated), you have approx. 30 seconds to get to the surface with a 6 cu.ft. bottle. The 3 cu.ft., half of that. These "Spare Air" are not safe to take into a bathtub let alone a pool!!! Remember, These things were made popular by Hollywood!

Now a 19 cu.ft. pony tank is the minimum size for openwater dive. Using the SAC rate of 1 at 99 ft (your numbers), you will have approximately 4 minutes to get to the surface. That is AFTER dealing with the reason for the emegency! Not much gas to sort yourself all out. The reality of the situation is simply this, you will realistically have less than 4 min. to get to the surface saftely. Safely is the key here. If you are not thinking of doing this whole thing safely, then why carry a pony bottle at all?

So, again, I ask what is it that you are trying to do and achieve? If your diving is to dive Dutch and Willow Springs ( I have dove both MANY times), that will dictate one approach. If you will be doeing the Jersey shore, that is totally different!

Remember the thread that is going on about the one diver's aunt? Whether you are inclined to believe or disbelieve, that scenario is all too real. This is some food for thought.

OK, here are the answers to your questions:

Type of diving - Recreational
I intend to continue recreational diving for now. As far as long term, I am not sure where diving is going to take me, but IF I do get into some more serious wreck diving or technical diving I know new equipment will be needed so my purchase is for what I do now. If I get into teaching or become a DM, then I will probablly use whatever the shop sells as they usually like that.

90% of my diving is done at Willow Springs which has a max depth of 55 ffw, BUT I have never found that deep spot yet, so most of the dives are in the 40 ffw area. I do go to other places of course, and one of the reasons for my purchase is a pony bottle requirement for ocean dives in the Atlantic. I would like to take a few wreck dives this summer and either need to own or rent one. The other reason for my purchase is obvius, to have a redundant air supply whenever I dive. I went with the 19 cf because it was an a nice size/weight/air ratio. I know the Spare Air is pretty much useless for my needs as it is only available in a 1.7 cf and a 3 cf.

Oh yea' I don't do any type of decompression diving at this time, no overhead environments, no serious wreck penetration, etc. If I ever do get into more advanced diving, I will go to doubles and such.

All that being said, my question still is do I need and am I required to have a octo. on my main regulator when I have a pony bottle regardless any type or size?

And about the thread with the Aunt, I never doubted the fact that she had a problem with her regulator, I had issues with the rest of the "story".

don't know if an octo is required but a second reg couldn't hurt so you have a back up because what good is a tank full of air if you can't use it.

I don't think I understand what you are telling me?

Could you please try to explain it in a little more detail.

Thanks, I appriciate your input on this one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by acelockco

OK, here are the answers to your questions:

Type of diving - Recreational

All that being said, my question still is do I need and am I required to have a octo. on my main regulator when I have a pony bottle regardless any type or size?

.

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Who requires any form/type of gear? The Dive boat may require a second, Independant source of gas. So obviously they do, but who else? I do not dive what is required by one individual or another, but rather that which is best for me and my team. I think a second regulator for your pony bottle is neccessary, and should be identical to your 1rst. and 2nd. stage used on your primary source of gas. Why? Simple, in any situation, a redundant source is always best. When I say redundant, I mean 100% identical. I have already had to disassemble my reg at depth, to recitfy a problem. Having deco bottles (for you, a pony bottle) that you can cannablize to rectify a problem is literally a life saver. Now, for the octo off of your primary reg. I would for the above mentioned scenario. You will have something to fall back on while dealing with a malfunction. The quarries....er....springs (Dutch and Willow) are perfect places to practice and aquaint yourself with this additional gear and how best to place it, to achieve a trimmed out position in the water column.

One other thing I want to address. You mention doing some wreck diving but not planning an doing much penetration. If you intend do some (I believe your words were " no serious penetration") wreck penetration, what is going to prevent you from having a problem at or near the penetration point? You can stir up the silt at the entrance just as well as deep inside. And once the zero vis hits, you are JUST AS SCREWED. This bit of rationale does not fly once one is in the water. So make up your mind, either you will penetrate or you will not, period. If you are diving air, then the narcosis will be adding immeasurably to your irrational thought process. You see, one "little" thing brings up sooooo many other issues. They all fit hand-in-glove. A wreck specific class taught by an experienced wreck diver could be very helpful.

I have had wreck diving training from Atlantic Wreck Divers and feel for the limited amount of penetration I do I will be fine. I am also taking some more advanced classes this summer.

By the way, so far the wrecks (other than quarry wrecks) I have entered I kept my hand on the entry way or 1/2 of my body out of the wreck. I am just sticking my head in for a look. After the advanced wreck class and a few others things MAY change.

In the quarries, I go in the wrecks all of the time, but then again I have been diving there so many times, I could find my way around in the dark. Plus they have BIG openings cut all over so there is always a close and easy exit.

I agree with you 100% the quarries are excellent places to practice skills and new equipment and that is why I am there at least 2-3 days / week during the spring/summer/fall.

I think amtrosie cleared up and added more detail to what I was attempting to say.

I taught lots of different courses for both for Naui and Padi.
I am an expert at what I did.
I taught surf entries off of Southern California beaches, AND I taught boat diving off of Oahu. I did not ice dive, mixed gas dive, quarry dive for cars, etc. I hate the taste of icky fresh water!

My point to all this is that most of my students tended to dive in less then 40 feet of water; there was more light, and much more sea life for them to enjoy in the ocean.
I taught basic, advanced, and specialty classes mostly; then I taught Instructors, and taught them to teach those classes too.
When I had students in classes, I absolutely had my spare air;
I had an Air ll as a secondary off of my tank, also.
My goal was to be streamlined and efficient;
it's the example I set for my babies.

Spare air was and is a useful piece of equipment for what I did.
Practical, light, and streamlined, I have used them for everything: as a teaching tool, back up for free dives, even for loosening the anchor at the end of the day.
And of course it takes practice and getting used to;
just like mask, snorkel and fins...
If you have the desire and training to dive deeper, by all means, use whatever works for you. Just don't be dismissive of equipment you haven't used, or that doesn't fit your type of diving.
Best Fishes,