View Full Version : I really am not a bad person...

07-30-2007, 02:18 PM
but cresus jist!
I belong to many forums; scuba, boat, motorcycle (R1150GS Adventure), blackberry, etc. And EVERYTIME someone posts a "so and so has passed away" message, LOTS of people post a simple
"the deceased and their family are in my thoughts and/or prayers"

How is THAT useful? No seriously, how?
Its much more useful to discuss HOW they died, and how WE will learn from it and NOT die that way. If at the end of a post that will bring value, you want to throw in the obligatory "so sorry, my thoughts are with the family" fine, but an entire post that is JUST that? Don't bother. EVERYONE who reads the post feels that way and you are just clogging up the system.

07-30-2007, 03:25 PM
How many really close friends have you known that have died while diving kirwoodd? You know, those divers you have come to respect for their knowledge and love for the friendship and commaraderie they have brought to your life; the deaths that make you seriously consider giving up a sport/activity that you dearly love. I don't know about you, but this year has been especially bad for me as a number of close friends perished doing what they loved most in life.

While I agree that the best thing that can come from such deaths is the knowledge that may prevent similar events from claiming more lives in the future, we must also respect the rights of those who were close to the deceased and allow them their space to grieve. Internet based discussions typically lend well to speculation as all the armchair divers come out of the woodwork to offer their opinions on what the diver did wrong. This does not help those who are grieving, especially when you consider the vast lack of knowledge pertaining to the incident under examination, and in most cases, diving knowledge in general, actually possessed by those who assert themselves as experts. This makes the grieving more difficult while also pushing those with the requisite knowledge to avoid jumping in to a cess pool of inuendo and misinformation.

So offer up your condolences to those who are attempting to get past one of the most difficult hurdles life can throw at them, the passing of a dear friend or family member. If there is viable information to be shared, it will eventually come out. The sad fact is that even with all of our advancements in technology, we still can only guess at most of what we think might have happened. This simple act of kindness may not make you safer under water, but it will make getting beyond the tragedy a bit easier for those who actually knew and loved the deceased. Who knows, if your condolences are sincere it might actually make you feel like a better person.

07-30-2007, 03:56 PM
"Jim was a good friend of mine, and I will miss him a lot. My thoughts and prayers are with his family."
Yeah, THAT I understand.
But too many people, who never knew the person, just automatically say that. You never the person and now they are in your thoughts and prayers?
oooo kay.

If MY good friend/mentor/brother passed away and I saw a lot of people who never knew him/her putting in those one liners, I would be upset. But HEY, thats just me. :)
Maybe other people see that and say "oh, isnt that nice".

The Publisher
07-30-2007, 04:12 PM
When BigJetDriver passed away doing what he loved there was a huge outpouring of condolences and remembrances of those who had had a chance to meet him, hang out with him, just talk on the phone and interact online and get helped with their diving issues.

His wife signed up just to read all the condolences and postings of people who had met him over the years that had fond past and current memories and she offered that it was consoling to her to read about all the good memories friends had of him.

As alluded to I agree that many families do not read such condolences, but as shown above, some do....but maybe it is more than a matter of showing respect and decency, it is our way of expressing sorrow, empathy and the whole range of emotions we feel as mortals pushing boundaries that make us all kindred spirits.

07-30-2007, 04:19 PM
I agree. If my brother died, I would LOVE to read rememberances from people who knew him. I am not trying to pick a fight, I am saying that *I* think that its uncool to throw out a half baked "My thoughts are with the family." On the other hand a "I loved that guy and he tought me so much, I will miss him dearly." Is another story, THAT is something that relatives/loved ones would like to hear.

Anyway, who knows, maybe I am wrong, maybe all of those one liners ARE heart felt, and maybe the relatives/loved ones get BIG value from it. Personally, I wouldnt, I would be annoyed.

07-30-2007, 08:08 PM

I feel ya' on this one bro. It is the same thing when someone sneezes and everyone is obligated to say "god bless you". ***, is that the dumbest thing ever.

I don't think I would have even brought it up as you have, but it crossed my mind earlier today on a post here.


07-30-2007, 08:33 PM
There is another board that I belong to, and they when they discuss a tragedy they have two threads in two differant forums, one for technical discussion so that people can learn, and one for heart felt condolences.

I like that. If you want to post rememberance or read some if you knew the person, thats great, if you want to learn, you can do that too.

07-30-2007, 08:46 PM
Hey Woodd,
I get what you are saying and at times I have posted that "one liner" but only when I thought it was appropriate and heart felt.

BamaCaveDiver, I am sorry for your loss.

I also hear what Cavediver is saying. And I can feel for his loses. More than likely I do not know any one he is talking about but I am saddened by his loss. It can't be easy. But I have read his posts around the board and I feel that on some level we have a connection, so I have no problem offering condolences.

This is what make us human.

You have a right to your opinion and I do think you bring up a valid point. But, I think that "one liner" you refer to may be a knee jerk reaction to that last step in life and as mortals it is rough to be facing it, even if it isn't someone we knew.

This is just my rambalings on the subject. or as I would perfer my 2 psi...

Let's go diving!

07-30-2007, 11:16 PM
Hey Woodd,

well Daddy,
Nobody has ever called me "wood" before, you get the honor of being the first.

Although, it seems obvious now that someone has said it.....

07-31-2007, 01:12 PM
You said it quite well Daddy-h2O. Kirwoodd, as you read those one-liners how do you make the determination as to who really was a friend of the deceased and who is just going through the motions? If you dive long enough and often enough, you make new friends. Some will be casual acquaintences while others may become your best friend for life. Even if it is little more than an introduction and a handshake, the common bonds you share tend to intensify the emotions. When we read that a diver has passed, we feel a loss for the community whether we had ever actually met that individual or not. We offer our condolences to those left behind out of compassion for the sport, in the hopes that when our time comes, others will be ther to help those we leave behind cope. I like the split threads as well, like used by TDS; the only problem there comes from all the quarterbacks who start flexing their extreme lack of knowledge as they speculate about what happened. Discussing the accident to prevent future accidents of a similar nature is great, but it only works when known facts are released by those who were on scene (which is typically limited to one or two individuals at most.)

07-31-2007, 02:28 PM
All good points BamaCaveDiver,
I just don't like to sift through the one liners, I feel like TOO many of them are throw away lines. You are correct that I have NO way of knowing which are which, and in fact, just because someone didn't know the victim doesn't mean that they aren't sorry. For instance, maybe it was your favorite dive spot and the victim was a new father, and those two things hit home for you, so you feel a pang. YUP, I get it, and its very therapeutic to post a condolence, I am completely on board..... I HATE reading them. Maybe its because it forces me to consider my own mortality, dunno. :(

As for the armchair quarterbacks, I don't mind those clowns. I like to read NTSB air transportation reports to learn from them, sadly diving has no real equivalent. But the armchair quarterbacks do make us (well me anyway) consider other things. For instance there was a thread about a possibly overweighted, possibly panicked diver fatality recently on another board. The first 10 or so pages were pretty valuable, yup, LOTS of speculation, but it made me consider both panic and overweighting, were they a factor in that particular accident? I have no idea, but I did learn from others speculations.

08-01-2007, 02:41 PM
That is it exactly Kirwoodd. Feeling unconnected when you read the one liners does not make you a bad person any more than my frustration arising from reading specualtion from the uneducated; it simply menas that we are both human, with our own individual interests and community connections. Unless the speculation gets carried to the point of pure lunacy (which happens more often than not from my experience) I usually attempt to ignore it and find better ways to occupy my time (just because something is put into print on the Internet does not mean that everyone who finds that page is obligated to read its contents.) I try to let those who need to grieve do so, as well as letting those who feel a need to speculate do their thing as well.