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Brandy
01-03-2007, 01:59 AM
What do you think about it? I think its cool,although expensive but very cool. I would love to demo one.

RebreatherDave
01-03-2007, 03:18 AM
I saw the mask at DEMA 2006. What a nice mask. They're going to incorporate that into their new rebreather I talked at length with them about.

I need gauge readers for my middle age eyes, yet I could see the numbers perfect with no blurring.

I saw it on the Internet for sale at some dive retailer for about $1200.

The features are here (http://oceanicworldwide.com/p_computers_iddm_details.html)

The user settings can be read here (http://oceanicworldwide.com/p_computers_iddm_details.html#settings)

To Demo a complete Powerpoint HTML slideshow , click here (DataMask HUD DEMO - PowerPoint HTML Slideshow)

Here (http://oceanicworldwide.com/flash/datamask_intro.pdf) is their PDF file.

Brandy
01-03-2007, 04:07 AM
Thanks Dave

Walter
01-04-2007, 09:26 PM
I dived Oceanic's HUD mask on New Year's Eve. I really liked it, but I didn't like it enough to shell out $1500.

aquamaniac
04-21-2008, 11:28 PM
I want one! Need to save my pennies :)

acelockco
04-22-2008, 01:20 AM
I think this one is another gimmick. Really I would rather spend 1/3 the money for a nice mask and nice computer. Or even a nice full face mask for that matter! You can get an Ocean Reef FFM for 1/2 the price of the HUD mask.

I bet in 5 years the HUD mask will have fallen through the cracks.

By the way, you can get them for a good amount less than the asking price, a few dive shops I know that has them would LOVE to get rid of them. They are not a big seller so if you are still set on getting one try to make a deal.

Papa Bear
04-24-2008, 05:14 AM
I just got back from a Manufactures gear test tonight!. We tested the HUD and yes some new split fins. LOL The HUD was cool. It is a good computer Nitrox friendly easy to use. With my 57 year old eyes I had not trouble seeing the display right there. With remaining air depth and no Deco time left. The mask itself fit really well and didn't leak on my face beard and all. The 1500.00 price tag is big and it will come down I would bet. But if you use video or still it is pretty cool to have it right there in front of you. They are working on a full face as well for Public Safety Divers and those that need to use communications. They will also have a Rebreather style by summer. One more step in technology that will have its place. I was hoping they would forget it was on my rig, but they didn't!. I also got a crack at Aries new top of the line Reg was is exactly that!. Comes with a built in swivel and breaths like a dream. We spent two days at Santa Cruz Island on the Backside with great weather testing.

divertodd1
04-25-2008, 05:51 PM
I think this one is another gimmick too....like We used to think of pressure guages, integrated BC...heck BC alone! I fear this is the look of the future. While I still take out my double hose Aqualung on my steel 72 with J valve from Sears, Most of the time I dive my more modern gear. Who knows 35 years from now (I was first certified 35 years ago) we may just look back fondly on the days when we used to dive with a HUD mask...remember when we thought they were a gimick now with the occular implants and gill franistaners how could we ever have used masks and Tanks!!!

The Publisher
04-29-2008, 05:56 AM
The R&D on this mask was fully funded by the military, yet they said Oceanic was free to sell the product on the civilian market, otherwise, it would be a $5,000 mask. They are thinking of integrating the HUD to a CCR.

acelockco
04-29-2008, 06:32 PM
$5000?? they must be doing WAY too many drugs.

Research?? It is a stinking dive mask with a computer glued to it. Come on, they are not selling at $1200 let alone $5000.

Another typical waste of US tax dollars.

Papa Bear
04-30-2008, 03:42 AM
They had some tooling expense, it is nicely integrated into the mask, and I think they will sell when they come down to the price of a good computer and a mask! $800.00 +-???

acelockco
04-30-2008, 04:38 AM
They had some tooling expense, it is nicely integrated into the mask, and I think they will sell when they come down to the price of a good computer and a mask! $800.00 +-???


Good computer $359
Good Mask $79
________________________
Value $438

SO, when these things drop below $500 then it might be a consideration. That being said, I would still rather have a wrist computer, a mask and a full face mask for less than the HUD.

Papa Bear
04-30-2008, 04:54 AM
Okay that's it! We are going to beat one into you! We will hold you down and make you scream "Oceanic HUD mask and I want it now!" And you my rich friend will pay double! :p :rolleyes: ;)

lars2923
04-30-2008, 02:06 PM
The R&D on this mask was fully funded by the military, yet they said Oceanic was free to sell the product on the civilian market, otherwise, it would be a $5,000 mask. They are thinking of integrating the HUD to a CCR.

Now if they integrate the HUD into CCR's that would be great.
Especially with Kerby's or OTS face masks with commo..

Sweet...

You would have to be able to switch displays to any number of
CCR computers too... I'm not asking for much...

Papa Bear
04-30-2008, 06:04 PM
The manufacturer said they will have the full face and CCR version out in summer and yes it will be switchable!

lars2923
04-30-2008, 07:57 PM
The manufacturer said they will have the full face and CCR version out in summer and yes it will be switchable!

Which manufacturer(s)/model(s) of CCRs?

Papa Bear
04-30-2008, 08:02 PM
Oceanic! We were told last week on the gear test overnighter to Santa Cruz Island... So be careful what you wish for!;) They said July, but it might be later?

acelockco
04-30-2008, 11:02 PM
Oceanic does not make full face masks or rebreathers, so what the question is:

Which full face mask is it going to fit and which brand/model of rebreather? I am sure it is not going to be a universal unit.

Papa Bear
04-30-2008, 11:45 PM
I didn't understand the question I guess? AGA mask and I didn't ask, but assumed universal or Majority types of Rebreathers.....

Papa Bear
05-04-2008, 02:43 AM
I am sorry I looked today and the HUD I tried was from Aries! I don't know why I thought Oceanic, but I did! Sorry if anyone was misled, but all the info is the same including the release dates!

thalassamania
05-04-2008, 07:13 AM
I am sorry I looked today and the HUD I tried was from Aries! I don't know why I thought Oceanic, but I did! Sorry if anyone was misled, but all the info is the same including the release dates!Same company, same mask, different logo.

The Publisher
05-04-2008, 09:55 AM
Oceanic also owns Hollis.

thalassamania
05-04-2008, 06:04 PM
Of should we say Bob Hollis owns Oceanic, Pelagic (makes computers for lots of folks), Aries and Hollis (which is run by Bob's son)..

The Publisher
05-04-2008, 11:20 PM
As long as we're adding to the list, I think Bob also owns the Tawali resort in Papua New Guinea.

thalassamania
05-05-2008, 12:38 AM
As long as we're adding to the list, I think Bob also owns the Tawali resort in Papua New Guinea.I'm sure Bob owns a few shares of Microsoft too ... I was not trying to fill out a financial for him, just speak to his major interests in the diving equipment manufacturing area.

Papa Bear
05-05-2008, 01:12 AM
I know they're all in the family, but product branding is important and many places in the world can get one but not the other? I was just thinking as I was testing it how much it was like my Data Pro Plus II, because it is, Da! :rolleyes: So I just wanted to be clear! And yes we had Hollis on the Boat with all the back plates and cool gear as well as Pelican with some great lights! A LED that is great!

thalassamania
05-06-2008, 08:06 PM
$5000?? they must be doing WAY too many drugs.

Research?? It is a stinking dive mask with a computer glued to it. Come on, they are not selling at $1200 let alone $5000.

Another typical waste of US tax dollars.$1,200 (or for that matter $5,000) seems a reasonable amount to spend to give a man who cost use millions to train even a tiny bit more of an edge. And if we get a cool toy to boot ... that's gravy!

The Publisher
05-06-2008, 11:49 PM
Usually we get half-truths from the media. I am reminded of aircraft seats for something like the C5 or whatever it was where the media said toilet seats were 10K each. They made it sound like it was hardware store toilet seat. They DIDN'T admit they were thin stainless steel seats that the military only ordered 200 of but that had to be pressed in a $75K custom die so the seat was light but sturdy. But the truth usually won't sell papers.

The R&D alone for these masks must have cost well over 250K, then add liability insurance....the mask probably has $100 in materials in it and most of the rest is R&D.

Personally, if it weren't for the fact that I use gauge readers from Prescription Dive Masks in San Diego and have a heads up Po2 display, I'd have this mask too.

Papa Bear
05-07-2008, 01:26 AM
At 56 I have the obligatory Astigmatism and it was easy to read! I was told it is like looking a 3 ft letters and 6 ft! It was easy to read and the Rebreather model is supposed to have all the bells and whistles? I might have one of these in my future, who knows?

thalassamania
05-07-2008, 06:13 AM
Usually we get half-truths from the media. I am reminded of aircraft seats for something like the C5 or whatever it was where the media said toilet seats were 10K each. They made it sound like it was hardware store toilet seat. They DIDN'T admit they were thin stainless steel seats that the military only ordered 200 of but that had to be pressed in a $75K custom die so the seat was light but sturdy. But the truth usually won't sell papers.

The R&D alone for these masks must have cost well over 250K, then add liability insurance....the mask probably has $100 in materials in it and most of the rest is R&D.

Personally, if it weren't for the fact that I use gauge readers from Prescription Dive Masks in San Diego and have a heads up Po2 display, I'd have this mask too.I believe that since the HUD is at infinity you will be able to read it fine w/o any aids.

acelockco
05-07-2008, 09:28 PM
$1,200 (or for that matter $5,000) seems a reasonable amount to spend to give a man who cost use millions to train even a tiny bit more of an edge. And if we get a cool toy to boot ... that's gravy!

I don't understand, can you please explain?

acelockco
05-07-2008, 09:37 PM
Usually we get half-truths from the media. I am reminded of aircraft seats for something like the C5 or whatever it was where the media said toilet seats were 10K each. They made it sound like it was hardware store toilet seat. They DIDN'T admit they were thin stainless steel seats that the military only ordered 200 of but that had to be pressed in a $75K custom die so the seat was light but sturdy. But the truth usually won't sell papers.



OK, but the point is for $600 they could have bought 200 plastic hardware store toilet seats that were just as light and functional. Even if they broke and had to be replaced every month, the cost would still be MUCH less than $10k over the useful life of the airplane. While I wouldn't mind our government spending this money if it was necessary, I do mind that they are spending it while so many more important problems exist that need that money. We don't have universal health care, there are people starving in our own country, we have an environmental crisis on our hands, there are over 2 MILLION people in jail in our country, our public school system has gone to hell in a hand basket, I can go on and on and on.

I say give them a plastic toilet seat, and take care of more important issues with the remaining $1,999,400 OR lower taxes A LOT!

thalassamania
05-07-2008, 11:53 PM
I don't understand, can you please explain?It costs, quite literally, millions of dollars to train a SEAL. If we can make his job even a tiny bit less risky by spending $5,000, then that is money well spent.

What folks don't realize about the toilet seat question is that is more a piece of accounting BS than actual seat cost. There is more put into the seat than most folks realize. You can go down to home depot and buy a plastic toilet seat for $20.00, but what did the one that is currently on your toilet actually cost? did you add in the time to select it, the vehicle expenses to pick it up, the worker expenses to install it, etc.? Those are some of the overhead costs you incur getting a seat, there are many more in industry. In addition, overhead for the entire program is typically assigned on a contract by dividing it up and allocating it equally to each item or system, this often makes an everyday item seem to be very expensive to people who do not understand the system or who have a need to make political hay.

acelockco
05-08-2008, 04:15 AM
It costs, quite literally, millions of dollars to train a SEAL. If we can make his job even a tiny bit less risky by spending $5,000, then that is money well spent.

The problem is it does not cost $5,000 that is the point, it costs a lot more. And does it really make anything less risky? I don't really think so, but again that is not really the point I was originally trying to make, I was saying it is way too expensive for the general public.




What folks don't realize about the toilet seat question is that is more a piece of accounting BS than actual seat cost. There is more put into the seat than most folks realize. You can go down to home depot and buy a plastic toilet seat for $20.00, but what did the one that is currently on your toilet actually cost? did you add in the time to select it, the vehicle expenses to pick it up, the worker expenses to install it, etc.? Those are some of the overhead costs you incur getting a seat, there are many more in industry. In addition, overhead for the entire program is typically assigned on a contract by dividing it up and allocating it equally to each item or system, this often makes an everyday item seem to be very expensive to people who do not understand the system or who have a need to make political hay.

The one on my toilet cost under $30, it took me about 15 minutes to drive to the store, 10 minutes to find and pick out the seat, 10 minutes in line and 15 minutes home. It took about 5 minutes to install it. I suppose at the rate of $.45/mile, it cost me about $10 in vehicle expenses. So $40 of actual expenses and about an hour of my time, even at $40 an hour that is still under $100, so we still have $9,900 unaccounted for. The REAL reason for the insanely high prices in political BS. Remember that some of the suppliers to the military are owned by the politicians, so of course it is in their best interest to overcharge, and again in their best interest to make sure the government pays for it. Think about it, they are the ones with all of the money and a retirement plan that would make ours seem like a joke.

thalassamania
05-08-2008, 06:36 AM
The problem is it does not cost $5,000 that is the point, it costs a lot more. And does it really make anything less risky? I don't really think so, but again that is not really the point I was originally trying to make, I was saying it is way too expensive for the general public.




The one on my toilet cost under $30, it took me about 15 minutes to drive to the store, 10 minutes to find and pick out the seat, 10 minutes in line and 15 minutes home. It took about 5 minutes to install it. I suppose at the rate of $.45/mile, it cost me about $10 in vehicle expenses. So $40 of actual expenses and about an hour of my time, even at $40 an hour that is still under $100, so we still have $9,900 unaccounted for. The REAL reason for the insanely high prices in political BS. Remember that some of the suppliers to the military are owned by the politicians, so of course it is in their best interest to overcharge, and again in their best interest to make sure the government pays for it. Think about it, they are the ones with all of the money and a retirement plan that would make ours seem like a joke.No, you failed to add in overhead. Assume that you bought 100 things to fix the house last year. To account for overhead you need to take everything that you paid to live in the house including rent or mortgage, taxes, utilities, food, heat, water, electricity, laundry, etc. and divide that by 100 and add that quotient to the toilet seat. That's the way the accounting works.

It's real easy for the populist, know-nothing politicos to make a big deal about it, they don't understand the basic assumptions of the system, they take a myopic, microeconomic view and use that misinterpretation to crank good people like you up over the mythical $10,000 toilet seat. That keeps you distracted and focused on the evil contractor; rather than the pork barrel set asides that your not supposed to notice.

amtrosie
05-08-2008, 08:45 PM
Ace,

What you are failing to account for is the fact that your application of said toilet seat is not the military's application. In a sub, plane, etc., when they are thrust into a combat situation, your $20.00 seat will splinter when hit. Very easily one those splinters could impede that soldier's ability to fight. (splinter in the eye, hand, leg, etc.) That could very well be the weak link that the enemy is able to exploit to atain a victory. (death to that person)

Another way to see it is this: An aircraft seat is designed to withstand a 16 g force. In an accident/incident, a sub-standard seat could break loose, causing severe harm, and probably death for those in the path of that seat. Are you willing to "go cheap" on that seat for a couple of bucks? You would be first in that chorus, calling for improved parts, and improved safety standards.

shinek
05-08-2008, 10:01 PM
Interesting how things can get side tracked. Just clicked on this thread to find it had moved from HUD mask discussions to the cost of toilet seats in millitary aircraft. :confused:

thalassamania
05-08-2008, 10:15 PM
Ace,

What you are failing to account for is the fact that your application of said toilet seat is not the military's application. In a sub, plane, etc., when they are thrust into a combat situation, your $20.00 seat will splinter when hit. Very easily one those splinters could impede that soldier's ability to fight. (splinter in the eye, hand, leg, etc.) That could very well be the weak link that the enemy is able to exploit to atain a victory. (death to that person)

Another way to see it is this: An aircraft seat is designed to withstand a 16 g force. In an accident/incident, a sub-standard seat could break loose, causing severe harm, and probably death for those in the path of that seat. Are you willing to "go cheap" on that seat for a couple of bucks? You would be first in that chorus, calling for improved parts, and improved safety standards.That is the other point, there are many places where the testing of parts costs orders of magnitude more than their civilian retail price (e.g., the fittings for a non-magnetic MK-15). Don't forget that the costs associated with the design of the testing regime and the test equipment get added in to the cost of the part.


Interesting how things can get side tracked. Just clicked on this thread to find it had moved from HUD mask discussions to the cost of toilet seats in millitary aircraft. :confused:Gotta keep up.

The Publisher
05-08-2008, 10:51 PM
We were talking about military toilet seats that have a heads up display, weren't we?! ;)

With crappy middle aged vision, I can see the characters in the mask perfect. My problem is I need the right eye with a magnification diopter, and my left eye needs to see the heads up display of my rebreather with the left magnification diopter, both cemented in. This mask would interfere with the left eye's vision of my HUD, but Oceanic's plan was to integrate the masks' HUD with the rebreather controller, so no need for an external HUD.

thalassamania
05-08-2008, 11:05 PM
We were talking about military toilet seats that have a heads up display, weren't we?! ;)

With crappy middle aged vision, I can see the characters in the mask perfect. My problem is I need the right eye with a magnification diopter, and my left eye needs to see the heads up display of my rebreather with the left magnification diopter, both cemented in. This mask would interfere with the left eye's vision of my HUD, but Oceanic's plan was to integrate the masks' HUD with the rebreather controller, so no need for an external HUD.When all the mask stuff is sorted out that may actually be the impetus to put my Mk-15 back together. Weird how it works sometimes, I haven't felt like working on it in years.

acelockco
05-09-2008, 01:16 AM
It's real easy for the populist, know-nothing politicos to make a big deal about it, they don't understand the basic assumptions of the system.....



I understand enough to know that a toilet seat should not be $10,000 for ANY application. If there really is some reason they can't use a plastic $5 toilet seat, give them some diapers and send me the change! I am sick of paying taxes to do things I don't want done or agree with! Send me my money back so I can buy a boat. It won't have a toilet, but I will put a $5 seat on the side so anyone that wants to can poop overboard, but it is $10,000 per use (CASH ONLY PLEASE to cover the research and development).

Papa Bear
05-09-2008, 01:22 AM
It has to be light and fire proof as well as strong! I would rather see it go to the military that a bridge to no where or WELFARE! Or to pay the health care of an illegal Alien! At least we get some return! It's called freedom!

acelockco
05-09-2008, 01:23 AM
That is the other point, there are many places where the testing of parts costs orders of magnitude more than their civilian retail price (e.g., the fittings for a non-magnetic MK-15). Don't forget that the costs associated with the design of the testing regime and the test equipment get added in to the cost of the part.


TESTING?? RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT??

You mean take an existing scuba mask, and mold an existing dive computer into it. Add a Radio Shack LED display, and you are done. They want you to believe it is all expensive stuff, but really it is all a crock.

That research and development money is buying the execs. at Halliburton fancy exotic vehicles, airplanes, vacation houses, vacations, boats, and everything else. Oh, but wait, I owe some more tax money better take my vehicle (with 260,000 miles on it) to the bank to tap out my account. It's all good, because some seal needs it to fight some DESERT war I don't believe in, and I can start walking to jobs.


Maybe I can borrow against my retirement plan to fill up my truck while I am out.

Papa Bear
05-09-2008, 01:27 AM
Wait till the Big "O" gets a hold of it all! :eek:

acelockco
05-09-2008, 01:30 AM
Wait till the Big "O" gets a hold of it all! :eek:

What is the Big "O"?

Is that Bush bent over with a hand on each cheek?

Papa Bear
05-09-2008, 01:46 AM
Hussan Obama! :eek: :mad: :(

acelockco
05-09-2008, 04:23 AM
Hussan Obama! :eek: :mad: :(

Who is that and why would he have it all?

Papa Bear
05-09-2008, 05:11 AM
Do you have a TV or Radio? He is the Presidential candidate of the Dumocratic Party! ABO=Anybody but Obama! He might not spend $20000.00 on a toilette Seat, but he will put us all in one (Toilette)! So buy the mask while you stile have a few dollars because if he gets in you'll only have "Change" in your pocket!

amtrosie
05-09-2008, 02:40 PM
I understand enough to know that a toilet seat should not be $10,000 for ANY application. If there really is some reason they can't use a plastic $5 toilet seat, give them some diapers and send me the change! I am sick of paying taxes to do things I don't want done or agree with! Send me my money back so I can buy a boat. It won't have a toilet, but I will put a $5 seat on the side so anyone that wants to can poop overboard, but it is $10,000 per use (CASH ONLY PLEASE to cover the research and development).


Forget the @#$ seat!!!! My god! What you spend for recreation is not the measuring stick for what is used in a life-or-death situation!! Each application requires it's own evaluation.

Do you think the cost for the production of the second 100 batch of a pill should not include the cost to develop that pill? (lets not go off on the tangent of pharmacueticals and profits) The analogy is drawn to make a point!

thalassamania
05-09-2008, 04:32 PM
Do you have a TV or Radio? He is the Presidential candidate of the Dumocratic Party! ABO=Anybody but Obama! He might not spend $20000.00 on a toilette Seat, but he will put us all in one (Toilette)! So buy the mask while you stile have a few dollars because if he gets in you'll only have "Change" in your pocket!Off your meds again? Can't afford to fill the script? A single payer national health care system can help you, really it can.

acelockco
05-09-2008, 06:01 PM
Forget the @#$ seat!!!! My god! What you spend for recreation is not the measuring stick for what is used in a life-or-death situation!! Each application requires it's own evaluation.

Do you think the cost for the production of the second 100 batch of a pill should not include the cost to develop that pill? (lets not go off on the tangent of pharmacueticals and profits) The analogy is drawn to make a point!


I am not sure what point you are trying to make and how it relates? I am NOT saying they should not charge for the R&D and every other cost involved, what I am saying is what they are spending on the R&D are BS numbers. They have these "ACCOUNTANTS" that love to add lots of zeros to the amounts. Seriously how much R&D is required to take an existing mask and an existing computer and put them together. OK so maybe some man hours designing the new mask skirt to fit, and finding the proper size LCD, and costs to actually make the unit, and advertising, but the numbers just don't add up to what they are charging.

And for the pill example you gave: Do you think they should still charge for the R&D of the product after they have made that money back? Example: After they make 5 batches of pills, all of the R&D is paid for, do they still charge for that after the 5th batch? Remember they are still charging enough on the other end to cover their costs and to make their profit. I am sure they don't lower their prices, but instead make unreasonable profits. As a business owner, I believe in profits, but not unreasonable ones. I also believe a customer should not only get what they pay for, but also what they ask for. We don't get either with our tax money!

thalassamania
05-09-2008, 08:15 PM
I am not sure what point you are trying to make and how it relates? I am NOT saying they should not charge for the R&D and every other cost involved, what I am saying is what they are spending on the R&D are BS numbers. They have these "ACCOUNTANTS" that love to add lots of zeros to the amounts. Seriously how much R&D is required to take an existing mask and an existing computer and put them together. OK so maybe some man hours designing the new mask skirt to fit, and finding the proper size LCD, and costs to actually make the unit, and advertising, but the numbers just don't add up to what they are charging.If you can do it better or less expensively then do it and stop bitching about it. If you can't then say, "Good job, Bob!" and let it drop.

acelockco
05-09-2008, 08:55 PM
If you can do it better or less expensively then do it and stop bitching about it. If you can't then say, "Good job, Bob!" and let it drop.

If that was the business I was in, then I would do it better. I am in a different business, and I DO my business BETTER and I am very reasonable. But just because I am not making my own, does that mean I have to be pleased and say "Good job, Dick"? NO, it means that I can choose to not buy the product (That is what I said from the begining!!!!!!!) and I don't have to talk good about it just because someone else wants me to, so here we are.

I guess you are supposed to be allowed to voice your opinion here. Funny whenever anyone else has something to say that you don't agree with you suddenly think they should not have the right to an opinion. I have seen you do this on other threads (Does Papa Bear need to back me up on that one?).EVERYONE IS ALLOWED THEIR OPINION!

And remember Opinions are like A$$holes, Everyone has one AND THEY ALL STINK!

thalassamania
05-09-2008, 10:40 PM
If that was the business I was in, then I would do it better. I am in a different business, and I DO my business BETTER and I am very reasonable. But just because I am not making my own, does that mean I have to be pleased and say "Good job, Dick"? NO, it means that I can choose to not buy the product (That is what I said from the begining!!!!!!!) and I don't have to talk good about it just because someone else wants me to, so here we are.

I guess you are supposed to be allowed to voice your opinion here. Funny whenever anyone else has something to say that you don't agree with you suddenly think they should not have the right to an opinion. I have seen you do this on other threads (Does Papa Bear need to back me up on that one?).EVERYONE IS ALLOWED THEIR OPINION!

And remember Opinions are like A$, Everyone has one AND THEY ALL STINK!Everyone is entitled to an opinion. The value of their opinion, howsoever, is neither equal nor guaranteed. It is directly coupled to their knowledge of the subject at hand. I have never said that anyone is not entitled to an opinion, all I've ever done is cast reasonable doubt on the value of some opinions.

If you think that they all stink, that's your opinion, you are entitled to it, I will take it under advisement and consider the source.

acelockco
05-09-2008, 11:52 PM
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. The value of their opinion, howsoever, is neither equal nor guaranteed. It is directly coupled to their knowledge of the subject at hand. I have never said that anyone is not entitled to an opinion, all I've ever done is cast reasonable doubt on the value of some opinions.

If you think that they all stink, that's your opinion, you are entitled to it, I will take it under advisement and consider the source.


OK, instead of getting into a name calling contest with you I am going to drop it.

Now lets see a photo of you in a new HUD mask?

thalassamania
05-10-2008, 01:42 AM
OK, instead of getting into a name calling contest with you I am going to drop it.

Now lets see a photo of you in a new HUD mask?I'm so, so, glad.

amtrosie
05-10-2008, 02:55 AM
OK, instead of getting into a name calling contest with you I am going to drop it.





Hip, hip horay!!!!