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View Full Version : Why I Love Nitrox....



scubapro25
01-23-2007, 12:30 AM
OK, things are a bit slow here today, so I thought I'd jumpstart the topic.

Feel free to agree/disagree........

1. Because I get longer bottom times

2. Less narcosis

3. And....have you heard this one before?

4. Less fatigue from residual nitrogen/non-symptomatic 'micro-bubbles' on a day of multi-diving.

DAN has now recognized 'fatigue' as a manifestation of otherwise, non-symptomatic DCS--meaning, your only 'micro-bubble' symptom is 'excessive fatigue' after a long day of diving on air.

Nitrox reduces this. At least, that's been my experience.

Feel free to tell me it's all in my head. :p

Just like the fatigue relief experienced by Richard Pyle on the 'deep stops' named after him, 'Pyle stops.'

Mikey

RebreatherDave
01-23-2007, 01:16 AM
OK, things are a bit slow here today, so I thought I'd jumpstart the topic.

Feel free to agree/disagree........


1. Because I get longer bottom times

For typical shallow profiles wherre ndl's are not as factor, jsut gas volume, then no, if you do repetative or deeper profiles running up against ndl's, then yes.


2. Less narcosis

Agree


3. And....have you heard this one before?

yes, I've heard it before, lol


4. Less fatigue from residual nitrogen/non-symptomatic 'micro-bubbles' on a day of multi-diving.

Possible less fatigue from heavy exertion, havn't heard of the latter, but sounds intriguing.


DAN has now recognized 'fatigue' as a manifestation of otherwise, non-symptomatic DCS--meaning, your only 'micro-bubble' symptom is 'excessive fatigue' after a long day of diving on air.

Nitrox reduces this. At least, that's been my experience.

Feel free to tell me it's all in my head. :p

Just like the fatigue relief experienced by Richard Pyle on the 'deep stops' named after him, 'Pyle stops.'

Mikey

Great topic Mike!

Pyle by the way has been hired as a consultant to Cis-Lunar for their Mk6 development with Bill Stone.

Zero
01-23-2007, 01:39 AM
Feel free to agree/disagree........

1. Because I get longer bottom times

2. Less narcosis

3. And....have you heard this one before?

4. Less fatigue from residual nitrogen/non-symptomatic 'micro-bubbles' on a day of multi-diving.



5. Cause after a hard night on the turps when you wake up with a killer hangover an 80 mix in the deep end of the pool relieves it much quicker than a pack of berrocca:eek:

scubapro25
01-23-2007, 01:40 AM
For typical shallow profiles wherre ndl's are not as factor, jsut gas volume, then no, if you do repetative or deeper profiles running up against ndl's, then yes.



Agree



yes, I've heard it before, lol



Possible less fatigue from heavy exertion, havn't heard of the latter, but sounds intriguing.



Great topic Mike!

Pyle by the way has been hired as a consultant to Cis-Lunar for their Mk6 development with Bill Stone.


Thanks, Dave!

scubapro25
01-23-2007, 01:48 AM
5. Cause after a hard night on the turps when you wake up with a killer hangover an 80 mix in the deep end of the pool relieves it much quicker than a pack of berrocca:eek:

Zero's gonna help us learn Aussie English and improve our vocabulary.

I'm gonna guess that 'turps' has something to do with what we call 'pub crawling' here in the US--yes, we do have pubs!

Also, sounds like good hangover remedy, however--thanks, mate!

Zero
01-23-2007, 03:44 AM
Yep only know one language and thats Aussie.
Turps = alcohol

Matt

scubapro25
01-23-2007, 03:50 AM
Yep only know one language and thats Aussie.
Turps = alcohol

Matt

Aussie and American English are 95% mutually intelligible languages.

It's the remaining 5% that drives us Yanks to the turps. :D

scubapro25
01-23-2007, 03:56 AM
Hope this doesn't violate any board rules about commercial posts, because I don't work for these guys.......just thought their stickers were hilarious and I've ordered a bunch of them for me and my girlfriend--check 'em out:

http://www.airspeedpress.com/stickers2.html

:p

Sarah
01-23-2007, 04:06 AM
Maybe "turps" is an abbreviation for turpentine, as in distillates?

Hilarious tickers ScubaPro!

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p53/iDiveChick/StickersAll.jpg

scubapro25
01-23-2007, 04:10 AM
Maybe "turps" is an abbreviation for turpentine, as in distillates?

Hilarious tickers ScubaPro!

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p53/iDiveChick/StickersAll.jpg

Hey, thanks for posting the .jpgs, iDive Chick!

Zero defines the 'turps' as alcohol, so you weren't far off!

Mikey

Zero
01-23-2007, 04:39 AM
Yep both right. Just all part of the Aussie lingo.

Matt

JS1scuba
01-23-2007, 06:24 AM
OK, things are a bit slow here today, so I thought I'd jumpstart the topic.

Feel free to agree/disagree........

1. Because I get longer bottom times

2. Less narcosis

3. And....have you heard this one before?

4. Less fatigue from residual nitrogen/non-symptomatic 'micro-bubbles' on a day of multi-diving.Mikey

Mikey,

time to set you straight .......

1. You get longer no-stop bottom times and shorter decompression times when doing decompression dives but this is all still dependent on having sufficient gas to breathe. If you do not have enough gas all the no-stop time in the world will do you no good.

For example at 100 fsw you have no-stop time with EAN 32 of 40 minutes but it would take approx 140 cubic feet of gas to do a 40 minute square profile dive. .......

2. Less narcosis is a pure myth. While you may be reducing the nitrogen in the mix by displacing it with oxygen; oxygen has sufficient narcotic properties under pressure that the combined narcosis level of the oxygen and the nitrogen remain the same as if it were air.

3/4 If you conduct a dive of similar dive time as you would an air dive while breathing enriched air you will have less nitrogen load on board and as a result will have less fatigue. But a nitrox dive to the no-stop limit and an air dive to the no-stop limit has similar nitrogen load and hence similar fatigue load.

Hope this helps you out a bit. FYI reference the NOAA Diving Manual 4th Edition .... Nitrox section. (i wrote it)

cheers

deeptechgnome
01-23-2007, 07:10 AM
5. Cause after a hard night on the turps when you wake up with a killer hangover an 80 mix in the deep end of the pool relieves it much quicker than a pack of berrocca:eek:

I second that one :cool:

Zero
01-24-2007, 01:03 AM
Cold water works a treat too but not as good.

Matt

scubapro25
01-24-2007, 01:18 AM
Mikey,

time to set you straight .......

1. You get longer no-stop bottom times and shorter decompression times when doing decompression dives but this is all still dependent on having sufficient gas to breathe. If you do not have enough gas all the no-stop time in the world will do you no good.

For example at 100 fsw you have no-stop time with EAN 32 of 40 minutes but it would take approx 140 cubic feet of gas to do a 40 minute square profile dive. .......

2. Less narcosis is a pure myth. While you may be reducing the nitrogen in the mix by displacing it with oxygen; oxygen has sufficient narcotic properties under pressure that the combined narcosis level of the oxygen and the nitrogen remain the same as if it were air.

3/4 If you conduct a dive of similar dive time as you would an air dive while breathing enriched air you will have less nitrogen load on board and as a result will have less fatigue. But a nitrox dive to the no-stop limit and an air dive to the no-stop limit has similar nitrogen load and hence similar fatigue load.

Hope this helps you out a bit. FYI reference the NOAA Diving Manual 4th Edition .... Nitrox section. (i wrote it)

cheers


Thanks for setting me straight, Joel.......far be it from me to argue with the author of a section of the NOAA Manual! LOL! :D

Actually, I'm open to debate and counter-point....that was the whole point of my post [note where I said: "Feel free to disagree and tell me it's all in my head"], so thanks for contributing.

PS: I am intrigued about the 'narcotic properties' of oxygen.....can you refer me to further references on it?

Mikey

texdiveguy
01-24-2007, 01:44 AM
Within the relm of rec diving I use Nitrox to extend my bottom time. Within the tec side I use Nitrox to shorten my deco time.

scubapro25
01-24-2007, 01:48 AM
Within the relm of rec diving I use Nitrox to extend my bottom time. Within the tec side I use Nitrox to shorten my deco time.

Actually, that's similar to the way we use it as well: to lengthen bottom time and shorten deco time w/40%.

Zero
01-24-2007, 01:51 AM
Within the relm of rec diving I use Nitrox to extend my bottom time. Within the tec side I use Nitrox to shorten my deco time.

Just out of curiosity on the tec dive how much does it shorten the deco for you? I can understand doing it if it would shorten your deco by an hour or so but if its just minutes wouldnt you be better off just running air tables and having the safety buffer being extended a bit more?
All changes on mix but just curious.

Matt

texdiveguy
01-24-2007, 02:01 AM
Just out of curiosity on the tec dive how much does it shorten the deco for you? I can understand doing it if it would shorten your deco by an hour or so but if its just minutes wouldnt you be better off just running air tables and having the safety buffer being extended a bit more?
All changes on mix but just curious.

Matt

Matt....when diving Trimix and using Nitrox as a deco gas....the stop times and overall deco obligation will depend on several variables within a planned dive. Its not uncommon to use other Trimix blends for deco stops. You have to relize also that ANY number of minutes you can safetly remove from your deco obligation is golden when your just hanging!

Zero
01-24-2007, 02:54 AM
You have to relize also that ANY number of minutes you can safetly remove from your deco obligation is golden when your just hanging!

Is it really worth it but? If your doing say 45m air dives for 20 minute bottom times your only going to pull a few minutes off your deco time. Unless the water is icy or your having problems with the wildlife what real benefit do you get out of it? Same goes for remote sites. Wouldnt the safety factor of running air tables be more beneficial? Stay in the water and offgas for a bit longer and have that piece of mind that you are just a bit safer.
I do understand the boredom bit it does suck hanging around doing nothing but breathing.
To keep it simple im only refering it air and nitrox not trimix.

Matt

SoCalDiveGirl
01-24-2007, 06:40 AM
Ok, this has pretty much nothing to do with Mike's thread, but when I saw it I couldn't help but post it :D





http://www.extazine.com/images/body.jpg

Zero
01-24-2007, 06:54 AM
So do you shorten the dive or extend it with this stuff?

Matt

JS1scuba
01-25-2007, 06:05 AM
Thanks for setting me straight, Joel.......far be it from me to argue with the author of a section of the NOAA Manual! LOL! :D

Actually, I'm open to debate and counter-point....that was the whole point of my post [note where I said: "Feel free to disagree and tell me it's all in my head"], so thanks for contributing.

PS: I am intrigued about the 'narcotic properties' of oxygen.....can you refer me to further references on it?

Mikey


Oxygen under pressure produces symtoms similar to that of nitrogen narcosis. Including, visual disturbances, euphoria, tinitus, twitching, etc. Also oxygen's physical properties are similar in nature to that of nitrogen ie: density etc.

Chamber tests have produced similar impairments with high pressure oxygen.

Oh and the setting you straight thing was in jest!

Cheers

JDS

SoCalDiveGirl
01-25-2007, 06:12 AM
So do you shorten the dive or extend it with this stuff?

Matt

Matt, extending the...dive... is always a good thing :p

Zero
01-25-2007, 06:20 AM
Matt, extending the...dive... is always a good thing :p

So your in the market for a rebreather too?:rolleyes: Anyone else?

Matt

JS1scuba
01-25-2007, 06:44 AM
This simple comparison shows how using just 7% less nitrogen in a mix will decrease decompression by more than 30 minutes. This is signficiant.

http://www.nitroxdiver.com/Air-EAN28-compare.jpg

Zero
01-25-2007, 06:54 AM
This simple comparison shows how using just 7% less nitrogen in a mix will decrease decompression by more than 30 minutes. This is signficiant.



What would the times be if the dive was on air with the deco on nitrox?

Matt

amtrosie
01-25-2007, 05:26 PM
SoCalDiveGirl,


Uerika!!! you have found the magic potion for us die hards(!)

amtrosie
01-25-2007, 05:33 PM
What would the times be if the dive was on air with the deco on nitrox?

Matt

Zero,

Why would you consider the dive on air, if you would do the Deco on EAN? You are already investing in the EAN gas, so there is no additional expense. I do alot of tri-mix, with deco on 50% and 100%, and I can not even recall the last time I used air. I FIRMLY believe in the use of a gas that allows me an additional measure of saftey. EAN is not the " be all and end all" of magic gas, but it does afford me better options when diving.

JS1scuba
01-25-2007, 06:13 PM
What would the times be if the dive was on air with the deco on nitrox?

Matt

IF you used air for bottom mix and EAN 50 % from 70 fsw on up for the decompression phase the total deco would be 55 minutes. Just about a minute more. However you have now added some complexity to the dive. I know its not much but you have added another cylinder, regulator etc.

Well planned nitrox dives can be used effectively without complication.


cheers

JS1scuba
01-25-2007, 06:16 PM
SoCalDiveGirl,


Uerika!!! you have found the magic potion for us die hards(!)

I don't know about you but i prefer to be a live hard ......

:D



JDS

SoCalDiveGirl
01-25-2007, 08:33 PM
I don't know about you but i prefer to be a live hard ......



live is good... otherwise it would be rigor mortis.. :eek:

Ok. back to Nitrox... :D

TravelnSJ
01-25-2007, 10:45 PM
I dive Nitrox because it is safer diving.....and if you are doing three dives a day or more on a Suunto.....you need it.....but here is an write up in Undercurrent that perhaps is an excellent reason to Nitrox:)


"Have a Little Nitrox, M’Dear
Last October, we quoted an Undercurrent reader
who’d discovered an unusual benefit of Nitrox. After
she and her husband made two dives with a 32% blend,
“something amazing happened,” said Karen Decker
(Oxnard, CA). “We went back to the room and had sex.
Yep, that’s right, sex. Something that had never happened
before the nap before that day.” Decker reported
that she and her husband “actually had the energy to
engage in this extracurricular activity each day after diving.
We’ve been enjoying Nitrox ever since!”
That article brought several comments, including
this from a subscriber who requested anonymity. “I love
diving; however, I found the drastic diminution of my
sexual responsiveness after a day of diving on air to be
an intolerable side effect. I proposed to my husband
that I dive only every other day and see if that helped.
He was not similarly affected; regular air or Nitrox, he
was always in full, happy vacation condition. He is a
physician and said that he thought Nitrox might fix the
problem. The change was immediate.
“We have experimented with one tank of Nitrox and
one of air when Nitrox is in short supply. This also seems
fine. For many of us, the whole vacation is not about diving
only. No one said a word about this in the Nitrox classroom,
but discreet inquiries on my part have revealed that
this is not a new discovery.”
Al Ankus, an Undercurrent subscriber and pharmacist
in Chicago, IL, offers an explanation. He told us that
Nitric oxide (a by-product of Nitrox inhalation) serves
as a neurotransmitter between nerve cells. Production of
nitric oxide “also plays a role in development and maintenance
of erection by stimulating the smooth muscle cells
surrounding the blood vessels supplying the corpus cavernosum
(region of erectile tissue that contains most of the
blood in the penis during erection). Through relaxation
of these muscles, more blood can flow in.” By the way, adds
our friendly pharmacist, “Nitric oxide is the main ingredient
of sildenafel — commonly known as . . . Viagra.”
Ern Campbell, MD, who runs Scubadoc blog told us
that while there are good anecdotal reports, there still
isn’t any hard evidence. He speculates, with tongue in
cheek, that perhaps vigorous sex and Cialis before diving
might decrease the risk of decompression illness, citing
research that shows while fitness above a basic level made
little difference, a bout of intense exercise (amorous or
otherwise, he says) 20 hours before a simulated dive in a
pressure chamber dramatically reduced nitrogen bubble
formation. The researchers believe that the exercise
eliminates microbubbles that seed the formation of larger
bubbles in the blood.
Other studies suggest that these microbubbles are
attached to the walls of blood vessels. Exercise is known to
stimulate the release of nitric oxide (NO), which not only
dilates blood vessels but changes their surface properties,
making them more slippery.
Obviously, there’s a need for more research in this
subject. As soon as we find a research team willing to take
it on, we’ll put out a call for volunteers"

Zero
01-26-2007, 06:24 AM
Zero,

Why would you consider the dive on air, if you would do the Deco on EAN? You are already investing in the EAN gas, so there is no additional expense. I do alot of tri-mix, with deco on 50% and 100%, and I can not even recall the last time I used air. I FIRMLY believe in the use of a gas that allows me an additional measure of saftey. EAN is not the " be all and end all" of magic gas, but it does afford me better options when diving.
Helium isnt cheap down here so for 40-50m dives a lot of people just use air on the bottom and then flush out a bit with 40 to 80% mixes.

Matt

Zero
01-26-2007, 06:34 AM
I dive Nitrox because it is safer diving.....and if you are doing three dives a day or more on a Suunto.....you need it.....but here is an write up in Undercurrent that perhaps is an excellent reason to Nitrox:)


"Have a Little Nitrox, M’Dear
Last October, we quoted an Undercurrent reader
who’d discovered an unusual benefit of Nitrox. After
SNIP
. Exercise is known to
stimulate the release of nitric oxide (NO), which not only
dilates blood vessels but changes their surface properties,
making them more slippery.
Obviously, there’s a need for more research in this
subject. As soon as we find a research team willing to take
it on, we’ll put out a call for volunteers"


At the the risk of totally embarrassing myself i can agree with this. After doing decos on nitrox and especially after i came out of a chamber after being on pure O2 lets just say things become hard to hide. And wasnt just a little bit it was full on.:o :o

Matt

Packhorse
04-19-2007, 03:34 AM
Nitrox is good. But here it costs alot. $20 for a tank upto EAN40 (more at some places) plus O2 cleaning.
Air is cheap. $3 a tank

So gas for a 3 dive day $60 or $9? Not really a hard decision to make for me.
Now EAN as a deco gas is a diffrent story. $20 for a tank that could last for 3 dives (or more).

DiverJohn357
05-25-2007, 11:36 PM
I was a typical nitrox skeptic until last summer. Then I took the nitrox course on the Turks & Caicos Aggressor. Typical liveaboard dives are in the 60 to 100 foot range. This was perfect for getting the "more bottom time" benefit of nitox. I also noticied less fatigue as well.

Papa Bear
08-24-2007, 03:43 AM
I have been using for 8 years plus and I love Geezer gas! At recreational limits MOD O2 up to 1.6 is less narcotic that Nitrogen! Deeper maybe, but thats why you switch to Tri-Mix. For five dives a day and Cave diving you can't beat it! I will tell you this Cal-Osha has their head up their ass when it comes to Public Safety diving and Nitrox! In our county you can't get below 100ft yet if you use 32 or 36 or any mix greater than 21% you have to have a Deco Chamber on site! It is like living in a bureaucratic stone age. Divers would be safer and have bigger margins and we have seen a state ranger bent on Air in a search that wouldn't have been a problem on Nitrox! My 4 cents, inflation!