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View Full Version : Breathing directly off cyl valve-useful?



Sarah
09-18-2007, 05:33 PM
Our publisher told me that when he was originally certified by NASDS, removing the 1st stage, and breathing directly off the cylinder valve was a skill all were trained to do.

Do you think this drill is some rediculous practice with no benefit, or is this in some way valuable?

Papa Bear
09-19-2007, 01:24 AM
I learned it back in 1972 when I was certified NAUI, PADI, & LA County. It can be useful in an accent during a catastrophic equipment failure and it does show you that you can survive if you don't panic! I would rather see it practiced without taking off the reg underwater with a spare tank though!

acelockco
09-19-2007, 04:07 AM
I don't know how usefull it really is, how practical, or how necessary if you practice proper diving techniques including the buddy system or other proper methods.

It does sound like a cool thing to try, and like Papa Bear stated, if you can learn that, you should be well past the panic issue. I also have to agree that it would be much better to practice with a spare cylinder because taking off your 1st stage while submerged will cause water to enter your 1st stage. Of course you know that this would require servicing at the minimum.

Tigerbeach
09-19-2007, 05:14 AM
I, too, learned this; we put a tank on the bottom of the pool and free dove down to practice. ( just crack the valve slowly, and slurp the air in...)
After a bit of practice, we were taught how to blow perfect air rings after breathing from the tank valve, too!

rubber chicken
09-19-2007, 08:11 AM
Sorry, but I voted no to this. I'm sure that this is a fantastic party trick but I can't think of a single real world circumstance where this would be of any practical value.
In the event of a catastrophic 1st stage failure, if you've the time and the air to, remove Scuba unit, close your tank valve, purge your regulator, remove your 1st stage and then start breathing off your cylinder valve, then you've got enough time and air to make it to the surface. If you havn't, then you should be diving with enough redundancy to deal with the failure.

Just my 2 bobs worth.

BamaCaveDiver
09-19-2007, 02:31 PM
I doubt that it is as useful today as it was back in the 60's and 70's when the market saw both upstream and downstream regualtor designs, but I still consider it one of the more important skills that I have learned over the years and practice it every now and then. Today it has taken on somewhat of a different twist as we have learned to swap a functioning reg from an empty cylinder to a full cylinder (yes, swapping regs underwater does mean that you will need to do a rebuild beofre the next use.) The whole idea is to be capable of accessing all breathable gas supplies without panicing. As for doing an emergency ascent in OW, I would much rather be able to make a nice, slow, controlled ascent and include safety stops as well as any deco stops that I may have incurred during my dive

seafox
09-19-2007, 11:44 PM
I doubt that it is as useful today as it was back in the 60's and 70's when the market saw both upstream and downstream regualtor designs, but I still consider it one of the more important skills that I have learned over the years and practice it every now and then. Today it has taken on somewhat of a different twist as we have learned to swap a functioning reg from an empty cylinder to a full cylinder (yes, swapping regs underwater does mean that you will need to do a rebuild beofre the next use.) The whole idea is to be capable of accessing all breathable gas supplies without panicing. As for doing an emergency ascent in OW, I would much rather be able to make a nice, slow, controlled ascent and include safety stops as well as any deco stops that I may have incurred during my dive

Well put!
DITTO

Cornel

rubber chicken
09-20-2007, 01:20 AM
Well, to be fair, swapping regs over is a different kettle of fish from breathing directly off a cylinder valve.
Yes, we would all prefer to do a proper safe ascent, but at the fertiliser/fan interface when the only other choice is breathing water then a CESA or even dropping weights are perfectly viable alternative. As to deco commitments, Ok I don't do deco dives yet, but AIUI, redundancy, gas management and proper buddy procedures are all there to help you ,long before you get to the party trick stage. If you have managed to fall far enough down the incident pit that stripping your reg of a cylinder and breathing directly from the valve is the best idea you've got then I would suggest that you seriously reconsider the sort of diving that you're doing.


Again, just my 2 pfennigs worth. YMMV

Dive safe

Papa Bear
09-20-2007, 04:44 AM
I doubt that it is as useful today as it was back in the 60's and 70's when the market saw both upstream and downstream regualtor designs, but I still consider it one of the more important skills that I have learned over the years and practice it every now and then. Today it has taken on somewhat of a different twist as we have learned to swap a functioning reg from an empty cylinder to a full cylinder (yes, swapping regs underwater does mean that you will need to do a rebuild beofre the next use.) The whole idea is to be capable of accessing all breathable gas supplies without panicing. As for doing an emergency ascent in OW, I would much rather be able to make a nice, slow, controlled ascent and include safety stops as well as any deco stops that I may have incurred during my dive

BCD has the right idea, it is about the discipline, and the fact that a malfunction isn't the end of your life. These are confidence building drills that help make a better diver. I have had my HP seat go out causing a massive free flow, but because of this type of training I knew what to do and know that if I can breath off the tank then I can certainly breath off a hose end or a free flowing reg. Does everyone need this, no only those wanting to learn more, as part of Advanced or Master Dive I would say yes! Just as a drill, like TB said, then learn to blow bubbles rings! Anything you can do underwater to make you more at home and comfortable is worth something!

BamaCaveDiver
09-20-2007, 02:38 PM
BCD has the right idea, it is about the discipline, and the fact that a malfunction isn't the end of your life. These are confidence building drills that help make a better diver. I have had my HP seat go out causing a massive free flow, but because of this type of training I knew what to do and know that if I can breath off the tank then I can certainly breath off a hose end or a free flowing reg. Does everyone need this, no only those wanting to learn more, as part of Advanced or Master Dive I would say yes! Just as a drill, like TB said, then learn to blow bubbles rings! Anything you can do underwater to make you more at home and comfortable is worth something!

Exactly PB, panic will kill you faster than anything. I know I can feather a valve to breathe off a free flowing reg, I know I can change regs, and I know I can breathe directly from the valve orfice should a situation ever develop, so I know that I can always reach the surface without fear. Chamber rides are long, boring, uncomfortable, and expensive. You always have to remember that safe ascent rates, deco algorithms (including no-deco limits), and everything else that is supposed to keep us safe underwater is at best a guess based upon fit and healthy young men doing the dives (and even the young and fit get bent as well as die.) I have yet to see any diver that can do a proper ESA from any depth below perhaps 20ft; most rocket to the surface and many keep more air in their lungs than they should. That's when they are practicing, so guess what is going to happen once the cacca starts flying.

Finless
09-20-2007, 10:35 PM
Having nearly killed myself (own stupid fault) I can confirm that breathing off the cylinder valve would be far more preferable than trying to breath water.

Having said that, if everything I take in the water failed at the same time (as a now solo diver) then I'll be very surprised and soon to be dead I suppose.

Tigerbeach
09-20-2007, 10:42 PM
Back in the old days, I taught the "ditch and don" exercise with tank and BC vest.
Padi, at the time disallowed it, but Naui allowed me to teach "Above" the standards, so I did it anyway.

One day, On Oahu, while on a final dive with a class, a student found an octopus.
I caught it, and made a little cave in my hands for it to hide while I showed it off to the class.
That octo must have seen something it liked, because it took off and jetted right towards the prettiest girls crotch. We were all torn, I'm sure as to whether we should try to grab it...The octo, I mean.
It ended up swimming up into her Scubapro BC, and squeezing it's way out the opening the tank band went through.
I had her do the ditch and don exercise while we got the little guy out, and swam him back to the reef.

I never doubted that I taught valid skills to my students.

Papa Bear
09-21-2007, 01:22 AM
It is amazing to me the number of people who can't or wont do a bailout in the pool! I understand not bothering with such skills at the Basic levels, but I think they should be in the Master Diver and any Senor certification as well as instructor course! Just my feeling about making better top notch divers beyond the basic! :D

seasnake
09-21-2007, 01:54 AM
The self appointed SCUBA guru in my area often boasts about being able to do this, and for that reason it gave me a chuckle when I saw them doing it in the movie "Into the Blue". So there is a good reason right there to know the skill: you may have to emergency free dive into a sunken plane after a pretty but greedy cocaine addict ...

It would be nice to learn and practice just as a mental exercise of staying calm and collected underwater and being able to complete a difficult task. I have to agree with the thought, though, that in real life if you have had such catastrophic failures with all your equipment and are left with no team mate to help you out, so that your only option is to now strip your gear off, remove your first stage from your tank and breath directly from the tank valve, you are having a very, very, very bad day. I guess if there is no other alternative, it'd be worth a shot. Same as breathing the air that might be in your BCD, if that's all that's left, might as well give it a shot. But whew, how bad are things if it has come to that?

Papa Bear
09-21-2007, 02:10 AM
As I have said it is an exercise only, that is how it was presented to me, a confidence builder!

acelockco
09-21-2007, 06:10 AM
That octo must have seen something it liked, because it took off and jetted right towards the prettiest girls crotch. We were all torn, I'm sure as to whether we should try to grab it...The octo, I mean..


Ahh Mr. Bond this must be your 13th film.